- It's easier to find a place to shoot, say, an M&P 15-22 than it is a 5.56 M4gery when you live in the city.
- Ammo is a lot cheaper, making it less spendy to reinforce basic marksmanship skills.
- 500 rounds in a day in a .45 will leave your hands feeling like you've been hitting a heavy bag. 500 rounds in a plastic nine will still leave you knowing that you've been shooting when you pick up your utensils at dinner that night. 500 rounds of .22 will have you asking "Is that all we brought? Who wants to run to WalMart for more?"
(Plus, I think I've shot a couple of those very guns.)
46 comments:
I love 22's, like you say they are fun to shoot because you don't see twenty five cents going down range every time you pull the trigger. I love big bore guns but I always say NEVER underestimate a 22's killing power.
Tam... when are you going to review your M&P 15-22 or did I miss it somewhere along the way ??... My son has one and enjoys it but from a technical persepctive I would like to know your views... also which ammo, best accuracy, etc..
Love your blog... definitely a daily read
Entirely OT, but have your seen Atomic Nerds? It's back, and, err, different.
Borepatch,
"It's back, and, err, different."
Still pwnt according to my browser, even with the cache purged.
Anon 8:51,
Thanks for the kind words!
I've only given it passing mention here and there; I'll try and do a proper review post on it in time for all the Santas out there. :)
(Short review, though: It's worth it. Definitely more so than the Umarex/Colt or Chiappa.)
LOL at Rich's hair. On a slightly different note, .22LR is more capable in a defensive role than average earth people think. For the elderly or infirm, something like a Browning Buckmark or S&W M63 checks the block for the first rule of a gunfight, I.E., "have a gun".
Al T.
Al T.
"On a slightly different note, .22LR is more capable in a defensive role than average earth people think."
I remember a conversation with MattG where we pretty much agreed that, at and distance much over twenty yards, we'd rather have a .22 self-loading rifle with any sort of reasonable magazine capacity than any pistol you could think of.
Hitting a moving A-zone at 25 yards is some pretty fancy pistol work, but a clout shot for a rimfire rifle.
(That should read "...that, at any distance much...")
Edoard Foa took several across Africa with him while hunting big game, he considered them an essential piece of the Safari kit. Bell suggested using 22's on Cape buffalo, and simply waiting for them to bleed to death, preferring not to waste one of his expensive "big" (.275)cartridges on an animal destined for the stewpot. Craig Boddington, IIRC, suggests using 22 on Cape buffalo also (Though not rimfire) The 22 is a part of gun culture, and may be the most critical part of gun culture.
Good video, and I did pick up a .22/45 after seeing yours :-) Now I just have to get out and shoot it... sigh
Yep. We may have had that conversation as well since I agree. My M&P15-22 with a RDS makes hitting clay pigeons at 65 yards sort of a boring exercise. I'm over the 3k mark with only a few dud rounds being troublemakers.
Col. Cooper once wrote that very few folks could suck down a 40 grain .22 through the eye socket with out eating their salads from the roots up post haste.
Al T.
I had a lousy range trip last weekend. Time to go back to basics with the 617. With that gun my hand cries mercy from the 10lb DA pull before recoil has done jack to me.
Love my 617!
.22 is a good cartridge to stack up while it's cheap. A brick or two a week if you can swing it is what I've been trying to average the last couple months. For one, you cannot reload it economically, so why not pile it up? For two, my advantage conversion on the Glock sorta simulates the same trigger pull. For three... it's a lot quieter than a 9mm. For four... the price of almost two boxes of decent FMJ brass cased 9mm, I can buy 525 or so .22 lr. And five.... my favorite...
Meijer has it so I can get it while grocery shopping!
While out with Ashley Emerson and Rich Lucibella, I commented on the very, VERY nice .22 rifles that they had for plinking. "Why short yourself on the gun that you're certainly going to spend more time shooting than any other?" Ashley asked. Why, indeed.
The way everyone is shilling that railed out .22/45 I'm guessing a "Man from U.N.C.L.E" remake is coming down the pike.
There's a great account of an elderly Kenyan matron filling her and her partner's Mau Mau tags with a Colt Woodsman. Her Jack Russell ran diversion, but still...
"Anybody who is into shooting and doesn't have a M17 is really missing out."
Rich really hit me where I live with that one. Ouch!
Anon 11:49,
"The way everyone is shilling that railed out .22/45 I'm guessing a "Man from U.N.C.L.E" remake is coming down the pike."
I think it's pretty brilliant.
The threaded muzzle has sold plenty of crappy Walther P-22's to people who own cans and would not normally otherwise buy a wretched piece of zinc-slide Umarex crap.
Now they can get a decent quality factory gun threaded for their Gemtech Outback II rather than having to send the Walther in for its third slide...
(And if you haven't plinked reactive targets with a .22 cheater gun with a dot optic or laser mounted, I highly recommend it. It's a hoot.)
Matt, I probably had the worst luck of anybody with K frame .22s. I bought and sold four trying to find one. Consistently had issues with tight chambers or B/C gap getting carboned up. The last one I purchased (4 inch 6 shot 617, full underlug) is a thing of joy. Stupid silly accurate and runs like a sewing machine. The M63 (.22 J frame) is another winner. Guess my advice would be to only purchase an older S&W .22 wheel gun if you can either shoot it or return it.
Al T.
wv - jamen - I be jammin lots of .22s these days.
Two of the smartest purchases I’ve made were a 22/45 HB and a 15/22 MOE, both have seen extensive use. As to the 22/45 with the rail and threaded muzzle, anyone interested in running either a noise suppressor or an optical sight on a .22 pistol would love it. I missed an opportunity to get a 22/45 fixed sight recently for less than $200.00 because I wanted to think about it… really smart move.
Matt, nowadays you have to put in work to find a M17 for the proper price ($200). Private sales at gun shows and estate auctions are your best bet (I did score a M18 for the proper price in a small town pawn shop a few years ago). But you will have to pay over double the proper price now.
IMHO, the Ruger 22/45 is the best value in firearms today. The Smith 22A and the Marlin 795 may be tied for a close second.
That Scout trainer looks very nice. I cannot understand why I have not done this yet.
Shootin' Buddy
Damn You! Now I HAVE to go to the Gun Shows, the Gun Shops, the Pawn Shops, Check the Ads..... ; )
Al T.,
Older Smith rimfires tended to have what we would call today "match chambers" (ie chambers that are tighter than Dick's hatband.)
Both my K-22 Combat Masterpiece and my '57 Model 34 no-dash foul their chambers relatively quickly compared to an H&R 999 plinker, but are nicely accurate.
Tam, knew about the match chambers, but these were take-a-cleaning-rod with you tight. I think they were Bangor Punta specials using worn out chamber reamers. Shrug. I am tickled pink about the 617 and 63 combination, so alls well that ends well.
Bubblehead Les, there will be a good shooting bull barrel 22/45 going on auction arms in a day or two for cheap. It was mine and shot well, just had decided to stay with the tweaked MK IIs I have on hand. Columbia Arms is my FFL who is posting the 22/45.
Al T.
"It's easier to find a place to shoot..."
Where DO you shoot, Tam? I've read your blog for years but never much paid attention to the Indy-specific parts since I'd never been here. Now I've lived here for 6 months and pretty much all I've come up with is, "Eagle Creek is expensive."
Although the first Sat this month I did wander up to Atlanta, IN and shoot the IDPA match. Seemed like fine people.
-P
I lucked into a K22 5-screw a couple of years back, and love it. It does get a bit sticky on ejection after 75 rounds or so, but nothing really troublesome. And it shoots so nice, I don't care.
On the 15-22, I managed my 'Buy one too early' and got one with ALL the problems. S&W finally replaced it on the fourth trip back, and this one has worked very well.
I'm still waiting for Ruger to introduce a .22 LR LCR.
Wasn't hacking with my "Man from U.N.C.L.E." comment, just making an observation, and with the right actors/director it could be good!
In the King's armsrooms we have plenty of similar platforms with integral suppressors and all manner of sights and "lights", and like you said they are TOO fun; suppressed with IR laser and like NODs invite all manner of mischief:-)
Shame suppressor laws and fees on the cake eater side are so silly in this country.
As a new Grandpa, It's warms my heart to see the young'un shooting. I'm chafing at the bit to teach mine shooting.
Chris
West of Mordor
Anon 6:12,
"Shame suppressor laws and fees on the cake eater side are so silly in this country."
From your lips to God's ears. :)
We have a few weapons at home but really like the .22 rifle since the grandkids can easily shoot it. While I remember when it cost less than a penny a round, even the four cents with today's inflation still makes shooting very inexpensive.
Are you guys kidding? 22s are godawfull money pits, Heck I got my 10-22 stainless from the local big box for $260, then I HAD to get a volquartsen comped tesioned carbon fiber barrel for $275, then I HAD to get a scope rail and move my B&L tactical 10X scope from my Remington 700 over (or spend another $250 on an optic, and a Shooter's ridge thumbhole stock for another hundred, and I have yet to get the Timney trigger group for another $170. Egads you must be mad!
Thomas, I built one of those, shot a box or three of Tenex through it. Sat in the safe for years, sold it last year. Too accurate for fun. Empty 20 ga hulls at 50 yards were easy.
Al T.
So far have shot 300-400 through mine, It's still newish, and I forgot the trigger that tripped the spree, a $5 recoil buffer to extend the life of the gun, I got into Midway's gunsmithing section and it was all over but the crying, or more like laughing. I gotta say it's still fun to plink the 100 and 200 yard gongs at my shooting range with it
My favorite carry heater these days is a Smif 2 1/2" M66. I'd trade any one of my gun-a-month blasters for a round butt 2 1/2" K frame in .22 cal.
Does such iron exist?
I do not remember seeing anything like it in The Arms Room, or in Supica.
Tam have you had a chance to use Blackdogs Gen III Steel Feed Lip Magazine for AR15.22?
http://blackdogmachinellc.net/3rd-generation---metal-feed-lip-magazine-for-ar15-22-conversions.aspx
Or Blackdog's X-Form AR15 .22lr 26rd Magazine Black w/ Stainless Feedlip?
Thomas,
The only mags I've used in the M&P15-22 are factory S&W units.
Thomas, Tam has the S&W M&P15-22 IIRC. From your link:
"We are very sorry to inform you that this magazine does not work with: Colt, DPMS, S&W MP15-22, nor the SIG522."
And, happily Smith has brought out short ten-round mags, much easier to use when sighting in or load testing or whatever
Damn you Thomas! you confuse me with ME!
You am me, we must delete my internet history......
Firehand said...
On the 15-22, I managed my 'Buy one too early' and got one with ALL the problems. S&W finally replaced it on the fourth trip back, and this one has worked very well.
5:02 PM, November 16, 2011
What were the problems with the early ones?
And when did Smith & Wesson start producing MP 15-22s with the problems corrected?
The only one with which I'm familiar is a too-light recoil spring that caused a fairly high incidence of firing out of battery.
Search over at the blog Guns & Coffee for pretty good coverage on the topic.
Thanks.
The reason I asked is that I'm starting to see a lot of these hit the used market in my area, and want to know what to look for (or fix, if it's something I can do myself).
"Shotgun" the rifle and peek in the lower, if you see a blue painted trigger spring, it's got the newer spring set. ;)
Sorry didn't see and respond to this earlier, but:
On my original 15-22,
The ejector ejected itself.
They fixed that, and then it kept catching empties between bolt and breech. Brand & velocity of ammo didn't seem to matter.
Then it started doubling.
Then, the DAY it came back from S&W from that fix, the extractor extracted itself again.
Yeah, you might be able to imagine some of the language used.
That time S&W replaced the rifle, and this one hasn't bobbled once.
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