Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Whatever happens we have got...

...no spine, apparently.


This is the part where we're supposed to park HMS Thunderer off the coast and start shelling their straw huts before we land a party of Royal Marines with some Gatling guns to shoot up the wog village and teach the heathens some manners.

Wait, I forgot, this is where we apologize to them for offending their peaceful religion.

I was born a hundred years too late.
Dear Mister President,

Remember: Napalm sticks to kids.

Sincerely,
A Constituent
Welcome Back, Carter, indeed.
.

85 comments:

Noah D said...

Didn't we used to have Embassy Marines, or something? Wasn't that one of their points of prestige, that they guarded even the tiny patches of American soil far, far away? Do we have any security at these facilities, at all?

Also,

The protesters were firing gunshots and rocket-propelled grenades.

I'm not sure that 'protester' is the right word there.

Kirkster said...

Looks like Obama already has apologized.

There is a reason we have a big navy with lots of bombs and airplanes to deliver them...

I am with you.

All the children of the world...

Ferret said...

Isn't it ironic that people who refer to us as "crazy Americans" will riot at the drop of a hat when someone makes a disparaging commentary about their religion.

You don't see the entire U.S. bible belt erupt in flames any time someone makes a negative comment about the Jeebuz.

Anonymous said...

So two embassies attacked, An American ambassador and three others killed, Chicago public school teachers on strike (many sporting trendy Che shirts), NetanYahoo! ready to unleash some whoop ash on Iran and the DNC used russian ships as a back drop for a memorial to our Vet's... shaping up to be one hell of a September for the O!

Michael

Woodman said...

Well, only one of them was actually an embassy. I don't know if the Marines travel with the ambassador, or stay with the embassy.

Islam is a very immature religion, just like Catholics 400-600 years ago and Jews and Buddhists, and whoever else, even longer ago. A religion hits a stage where they must smite and kill the unbeliever, and then they get the shit kicked out of them and they grow up. We're sparing the rod here.



Woodman said...

"Al-Sharef said two U.S. Marines sent to Benghazi when the clash erupted were shot and killed by the well-armed protesters. It was not immediately clear whether the Marines were part of Stevens' security detail. The American whose death was confirmed on Tuesday also died of a gunshot wound. He was identified by the State Department on Wednesday as Foreign Service Information Management Officer Sean Smith."

Two of the dead were Marines. And Sean Smith sounds a bit CIAish to me.

Fuzzy Curmudgeon said...

What part of "act of war" does our government not understand?

Balloon Goes Up said...

I actually am glad he his being weak. If he decided to say...

"2 attacks in 2 days, 1 on 9/11? We have to make an example out of someone... Unfortunately for you, it is you"

And then go in, toss the government and walk out...

I think he would be harder to beat in November.

Roger said...

Folks, think that the only good thing that will come out of this disgusting display of cowardice and grovelling before the Islamists is that once again the Obammunist is proving his weakness. A few more of us will be motivated to fire his skinny butt in November. Pray for our nation folks.

Boat Guy said...

While U.S. Embassies ARE (or were except during the Carter/ObaMao eras)"sovereign soil" the Marine Security Guard Detachments work for (as in take their orders from) the Department of State. The MSG's do not protect the Ambassador; that job (where/when deemed necessary) is done by the Diplomatic Security Service.
I failed my initial interview to be considered as an MSG candidate shortly after the FIRST Tehran Embassy incursion by stating "Somebody comes over that wall, I'm gonna shoot him." Thank you, Corporal, that will be all...

Cormac said...

This breaks down to a couple of easy-to-cry-and-beg-forgiveness questions:
1. Was this an act of war?
if yes, then we war right back at 'em twice as hard
if no...
2. Was this state-sponsored?
put the burden of proof on them to prove it: beg OUR forgiveness and punish the hell out of these little bastards!

Library-Gryffon said...

These reactions on the part of the administration simply confirm my belief that they don't want us to look good, that they want their own country to be taken down a peg or ten. They've got the navy down to its lowest ship number in nearly a century, and despite having us fighting more wars than the Evil War-Monger Bushitler did, they've also continued drawing down our troop strength to the lowest since 1950. And it's not like the world has suddenly become a safer place with the immaculation of the Won.

If I were ruler of the world, Medina and Mecca would have been glowing green for the last 11 years.... but then I am a mother of daughters, and a medievalist.

A background in medieval history tends to give you an interesting, and I would argue, much more accurate view on Islam, and appropriate method of dealing with it.

Cormac said...

The thought of actually, you know, FIGHTING Libya reminds me of something I read once...

http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2011/09/that-70s-show-again.html

Geodkyt said...

See, Boat Guy, that's the difference. . .

Your answer would have propelled you to the TOP of my list, were I the selection officer.

The next question would have been, "Well, what if the protestors are unarmed and stay on THEIR side of the wall?" (Winning answer: "They can get very bored looking at me standing post emoitionlessly.")

When the wogs are inside the wire, I WANT the MSG to be laying down some serious hate, discontent, and heartburn. It's no longer a foreign security issue to be handled with consideration for teh host nation's feelings and cooperation with their security forces; it's an invasion of US soil.

At which point, the ROE inside the walls should be "DRT", whilst the diplo staff burns the files. If we evacuate the facility, torch the site and leave nothing but nice grilling coals behind for the "students", "radicals", or whatever euphemism the Foggy Bottom Fairies are using for "state sponsored terrorists committing acts of war" these days.

Geodkyt said...

(Yes, it's expensive to raze your own embassy or consulate to the ground. Cheaper in the long run if the world realizes your SOP is to leave them nothing but pain.)

Ygolonac said...

Sean Smith, aka "Vile Rat", was a forum moderator at the SomethingAwful.com forums, and a popular EVE Online player. He was actually in-chat at the time of the attack, and his last two messages before disconnection were (NWS language edit):

"(2:40:22 PM) vile_rat: F**K
(2:40:24 PM) vile_rat: gunfire"

SA isn't exactly known for subtle and tasteful humour, but this isn't their kind of gag; I've already seen multiple mods threatening bans if there's jackassery.

Lewis said...

Man, I sure am glad that we're finally dealing with the Kadda-fey menace, and that following in his wake are Mahmoud al-Washington and Ahmed al-Jefferson.

Bob said...

Where'd my comment go? I'd swear I left one. It wasn't particularly offensive (for me), even if it wasn't particularly profound, either...

Tam said...

Bob,

Was it this one? I'm not finding anything in the spam trap...

Bob said...

That's it, Tam. Sorry for the mix-up. The brain cell die-off after age 50 is accelerating, I'm afraid.

Anonymous said...

I'm with TR in walk softly and carry a big stick. That does imply that when the need arises you smack someone upside the head with said stick.

We used to do yearly refesher training for SDPS folks. As Boat Guy said they have a different mindset than grunts. It is surprising they would let the Ambassador go to such a hot spot.

Gerry

Jake (formerly Riposte3) said...

Interestingly, these attacks may not have been as spontaneous and unorganized as some would have us believe.

Boat Guy said...

In a subsequent life, MY Ambassador would go to the range with the MSG and qualify on everything in the locker (he even dragged the DCM, sreaming and kicking). He was certainly not your typische State Department cookie-pusher. A great American, one of the three best bosses I've had. I'd count on him to a) take care of himself and b) watch my 6..

Bubblehead Les. said...

Funny. Isn't it kinda strange that the only Diplomatic Outpost in that area of the world that seems to be safe is in Tel Aviv?

And yet, with the Persians trying to bring back the Glory days of Darius the 2nd., the Anointed One is too busy Campaigning to do a face-to-face with Netanyahu?

NAVIGATOR said...

WE HAVE COME A LONG WAY SINCE "AWERICA WANTS PADICARIS ALIVE OR RASULI DEAD"

BTW THE "MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD" WAS FOUNDED AND FUNDED BY ABWHER THE GERMAN MILITARY INTELLIGENCE AGENCY IN THE LATE 1920S FOR USE AGAINST THE BRITISH IN EGYPT MI6 AFTER WWII TO TRY TO USE THEM AGAINST THE SOVIETS ACTUALLY THE SOVIETS USED THEM AGAINST
THE WESTERN POWERS DOES NOT STATE OR POTUS KNOW THE HISTORY AND THE THUGS THAT THEY HAVE EMBRACED AS ADVOCATES OF DEMOCRACY AND HAVE BENEFITED BILLIONS OF THE TAXPAYERS LARGESS
CONSIDER EX-SOVIET DIPLOMATIC MISSIONS ARE UNMOLESTED BY ANGRY MOBS I WONDER WHY?
TEDDY MUST BE SPINNING IN HIS GRAVE

Cybrludite said...

Seems to me that if we're fitting GPS guidance & stand-off glide packages to conventional bombs, we'd have something similar for our free-fall packages of bottled sunshine. Granted that, it should be fairly easy to set up a pattern to maximize the heat pulse over an area that covers every square inch of Benghazi and its suburbs with no more than one or two B-1B's worth of nukes. Just saying...

Ish said...

As usual, Tam has said in a few words what I said in several times too many. But, gorram it, I really do think we need a Third Barbary War.

C'mon Congress, dust off the ruber stamp and start handing out Letters of Marque and Reprisal.

Don said...

Given our current deployments, committments, and the Obamination's agenda, we haven't got the forces to go into another fight. We can attack with cruise missiles, aircraft, or even ICBMs, but that only gets the body count up. It's not yours until you've got boots on the ground.

Tam said...

Don,

"It's not yours until you've got boots on the ground."

Contrary to Colin Powell, just because you break it doesn't actually mean you need to buy it.

Ish said...

We once captured Tripoli with one First Lieutentant, eight Marines, and 500 mercenaries... They don't need to be our boots on the ground, do they?

Frankly, I say that we go the full carthage delenda est route. Give them 72 hours to GTFO, bomb everything they leave behind to dust, and salt the earth.

Stretch said...

Two stolen comments sum it up rather neatly.

Osama is Arabic for Carter.

Rubble don't cause trouble.

Ish said...

Carthago delenda est... Somewhere, a retired Nun just felt a destrubance in the Force. I apologize for my bad Latin.

Oleg Volk said...

What's the point of attacking a country when the problem is with specific people within? Imagine if US sent aircraft to bomb a Chinese embassy someplace like Serbia and China responded by bombing Seattle...

Oleg Volk said...

And, more to the point, imagine a mob attacking an embassy in Wash DC and parts of Virginia getting plastered in response. I wouldn't like to nail innocent people in the process of getting the culprits.

Cybrludite said...

Because hitting the Red Chinese embassy was a mistake, and we promptly apologized and made amends.

Tam said...

Oleg Volk,

"And, more to the point, imagine a mob attacking an embassy in Wash DC and parts of Virginia getting plastered in response."

If a mob of U.S. citizens stormed a foreign embassy in Washington D.C., I will bet you One Thousandth American Dollars that DC police/Secret Service/et cetera would use lethal force against their own countrymen to protect the embassy.

Killing an ambassador has been a casus belli since the dawn of the nation state. In attacking his person, they have symbolically attacked you, me, your neighbor, and everybody we know and don't think they don't know it.

The only possible atonement would be for what passes for the Libyan government to produce some ringleaders and hand them over, or face punitive retribution.

Geodkyt said...

Not just "killing an ambassador", but "failing to protect an ambassador" is a causus belli.

As Tam says, the appropriate response for the host nation that failed to present such an act would be to expeditiously deliver a dufflebag full of heads of the ringleaders, with profuse apologies.

Boat Guy said...

"...and start handing out Letters of Marque and Reprisal."

If I thought there was the slightest chance of that happening I'd be standing in line...

I've had the thought for some time that privateering be one way to truly affect the "War on (some) Drugs" - at least at sea.

Boat Guy said...

" Not just "killing an ambassador", but "failing to protect an ambassador" is a causus belli."
Given that a U.S. Ambassador is the personal representative of POTUS, Cake Boy could take it personally if he chose to.
Be a fine excuse to "Wag The Dog".
So where's that notorious "thin skin"? Too target-fixated on Dinesh D' Souza to worry 'bout HIS guy?

Anonymous said...

Sorry Oleg,

I understand your thoughts but that dog doesn't hunt.

No Americans stormed the Saudi or any Middle Eastern embassy after 9/11.

If your diplomats can't be safe in there own embassy, there is no chance for diplomcy to work.

The Libyian government has offerd an apology, nothing from Eygpt yet.

Gerry

Tam said...

Boat Guy,

An ambassador represents a sovereign, which in this country is me. And you. And Oleg.

Oleg Volk said...

I am fine with specific heads on spikes. I would prefer heads on spikes to seeing whole cities turned into rubble because the overwhelming majority of the victims would be innocent bystanders.

Trent said...

Oleg,

I think cities turning into rubble serves more than one purpose. First off you get whoever was behind this insanity, and everyone they care about. Second you make it clear the consequences of atrocities like this, so that the next time some jackwaggon says "hey we should go storm the US embassy to show our displeasure" Everyone he knows throws big rocks at him because they remember Benghazi and the horrors we perpetrated against the Libyan people because of what happened yesterday.

Of course our country is weak now so nothing but harsh language will happen.

Jake (formerly Riposte3) said...

" Not just "killing an ambassador", but "failing to protect an ambassador" is a causus belli."

Speaking of which, one of the other victim's last internet messages was:
(12:54:09 PM) vile_rat: assuming we don't die tonight. We saw one of our 'police' that guard the compound taking pictures

So, not "failing to protect an ambassador", but "intentionally failing to protecting an ambassador".

Obama needs to be continuously and aggressively grilled on why there is not a carrier group and a Marine assault force assembling off Libya's coast right freakin' now!

Jake (formerly Riposte3) said...

Whoops! Forgot the source link.

Jayson said...

Oleg, I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. We should carpet bomb Libyan cities and towns for 7 days until the only people left are nomads in the Sahara. As for Cairo, you know those douches are going to do some more jackassery in the streets again soon enough, and when it does, we launch strike aircraft out of Israel and napalm them.

After that, we put flame-throwers in our at-risk diplomatic stations. Have a little fire, scarecrows.

Anonymous said...

The news media seem to be more upset with candidate Romney than with the Libyans that killed our ambassador and three other US citizens.

Boat Guy, want to bet there will be a second Egyptian Embassy incursion just like Iran in 1979?

And the news of the 2012 hostage crisis will have the word "unexpected" in the first paragraph too?

KM said...

Nuke it from space...its the only way to be sure.

Trent, +1

jetaz said...

I said it yesterday, and I will say it again, caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

Kill the fucking wogs as an object lesson to the rest. For daring to invade the United States we should level Tripoli. For murdering our Ambassador we should level Libya.

The only way that I would be willing to not wage war on Libya is if they decimate the population of Tripoli and pay us reparations.

Oleg Volk said...

I see entirely too much enthusiasm for collective responsibility.

Anonymous said...

Look Oleg, in the affairs of nations there is no such thing as individual responsibility. The United States has no ability to investigate, and punish individual Libyan terrorists. (And frankly, the Libyans don't either.) The only way we can engage with Libya is as a nation. If that means that innocent people are killed that is unfortunate, but actions have consequences, and sometimes those consequences are ugly.

Myles said...

Oh, for a flight of F-111's right now...

staghounds said...

I'm with Oleg, mass slaughter doesn't bother tyrants anyway. Nor free people, it certainly didn't chasten the British in 1940 or the Americans in 1941.

We DO have the ability to cruise missile the Libyan "government", after all we put them there!

Zap the bosses, and explain to the next ones that they had best do a better job of embassy protection next time.

Tam said...

staghounds,

"Mass Slaughter" != "Punitive Retribution" (although our squeamishness at the the thought of any "collateral damage" whatsoever does paralyse us in the face of our barbarian foes...)

The broadsides of the 21st Century HMS Thunderer can be much better targeted than her 19th Century predecessor, and the Gatlings of her marines can be ever so much more selective.

We cannot, however, let our fear of an errant shell fragment prevent us from using them.

alex. said...

Re: "Remember: Napalm sticks to kids".

That brings back memories of Parris Island and then Infantry Training School at Camp San Onofre back in 1984. Among other lyrics we used to sing while running in formation, one tune stuck out:

"Luke the gook was a Viet Cong,
Lived in a hootch with his Mama-San.

Little baby sucking on Mama's tit, F-4 pilot don't give a shit.

Dropped that napalm on the ground, crispy critters all around.

'cause napalm, napalm, sticks like glue,
Sticks to women and children, too."

I don't know what cadences they sing these days.

global village idiot said...

AP (Washington DC:
DHS announces it will now monitor "Rotten Tomatoes" for indications of potential terrorist activity. In other news,- Rex Reed nominated to head DHS's new "Anti-Film Criticism" task force.


gvi

Bob in Houston said...

Ladies and gentleman, face it, we can no longer win wars as the enemy has discovered that we are only allowed to fight a proper war against people in uniform and as we all know, anyone killed not wearing a uniform is an "innocent civilian".

Anonymous said...

Oleg Volk and Staghounds:

I've got two words for you; "Hiroshima" and "Nagasaki".

Notwithstanding scale, considerations of cause effect are the same. War is hell, and innocents get hurt.

Rustmeister said...

... it makes 'em bubble and makes 'em fizz...

Just completing the cadence there.

the real Mr.O said...

"And, more to the point, imagine a mob attacking an embassy in Wash DC and parts of Virginia getting plastered in response." -- Oleg

Do you mean, as an analogous situation, one of the hijacked planes in '01 being flown into the Pentagon?

"I wouldn't like to nail innocent people in the process of getting the culprits."

An American citizen's life, even ignoring the history of diplomatic protection between civilized nations, is worth less than that of an adherent of the "religion of peace"?!

Bullshit...as is quite amply demonstrated by the attacks on our embassies and savage murders of our representatives.

The notion that the "trigger" for such violence [which continues unabated in Cairo as I write this] can be attributed to a trailer for a video released two months ago is absurd.

The storming of our embassy in Egypt and the murder of our ambassador and members of his staff in an obscure Libyan consulate/safe house signal a coordinated effort.

To suggest that the violent demonstrations and assassinations of September 11th, 2012 were somehow a coincidence is to buy into the narrative that we can trust the "good" Muslims not to support such atrocities.

We can't.

The only advice I can offer you, Oleg, is to get your ass out of
Condition One re: our current situation and remember the reason you live here.

There are 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide who might cheer your death and mine ... and it has nothing to do with our citizenship in the world's greatest country.

They want us dead for one simple reason: we are, by definition, infidels...and their religion defines us as acceptable collateral damage if we can't be "converted" to their centuries-old notion of the "justified" dominance of sharia law.

A pox on their "jihad".

kishnevi said...

1)Y'all seem to be stuck with the illusion there is a real government in Libya.
2)You may remember we invaded a country called Afghanistan because it harbored terrorists who attacked us. We never really beat them, and obviously respect for US power was a not a lesson imparted by that invasion, even though it came with the requisite amount of mass casualties.

Sending in the carpet bombers is a good idea when you can expect results from that move. But it's a stupid move when you expect that the desired results will never materialize.

Buzz said...

Big sticks are nothing but fodder for mycelium unless you bounce them off a noggin every so often.

Nobody fears a patch of morels, 'specially not when they're tended by an effete statist that gets bear-hugged by a pizza tosser.

Ed said...

"I've got two words for you; "Hiroshima" and "Nagasaki""?

That's because most other major Japanese cities had already been either firebombed or had cloud overcast that would obscure the immediate observation of the effect of the nuclear bombing, preventing photo-documentation.

Some Americans would have preferred that we upscaled our experience in taking Okinawa and invaded mainland Japan instead of using nuclear weapons. That is self-loathing taken to an extreme.

Mike V. said...

At the height of the empire, a Roman citizen could walk across the face of the known world free of molestation. He could walk across the Earth unharmed, cloaked only in the protection of the words civis Romanus -- I am a Roman citizen. So great was the retribution of Rome, universally certain, should any harm befall even one of its citizens since the Roman Army would wipe out every living thing in the village, then wipe out the village.

There is a lesson there somewhere methinks.

greg tag said...

Boatguy:

I would have hired you on the spot.

Mission Brief:
"DevilDog Boatguy- See that wall?"

"On top of and inside that wall is your engagement area"

" Anyone who enters the perimeter is hostile and will be engaged - let First Sergeant know if you require more ammo. "

Friends

I recall Rudyard Kipling's poem,
The Grave of a Hundred Head.

The Libyan "government" or " powers that be ", apparently encouraged the mob by playing excerpts of the anti-Prophet movie on state TV. If state TV is doing mob-provoking, this is not a "do it yourself" project sponsored by a local mullah who wants to make a name for himself. This is a product of the disfunctional government we helped install. It s not capable of keeping the peace or educating its citizens or cnducting commerce, but it does seem to have " mob excitation" down pretty good.

We have been given a pro-forma apology by this same government.

I suspect this has been coordinated with the Egyptian government ( read Muslim Brotherhood). This is the new Mid-East reality, and we really should consider a response that includes the head of the Boh on top of the pile, and the head of his son below.

For a more " reasoned" and limited response, without nukes, have a couple of destroyers stand offshore and use naval gunfire and a few Tomahawks to destroy " Government House" or " The Green House" or "Green Gables" or whatever they call the building that is the physical seat of government.

This would be a perfect employment for the Battleship New Jersey, but sadly she is no longer available.

We also should not send them another dimes worth of foreign aid.

Regards

GKT

Justthisguy said...

Dang, Tam, I have a problem deciding who I want for Dictator, you or Mike Williamson.

Justthisguy said...

Hmm. Our Tam as Dictatrix. She would need lots of bodyguards, but I betcha there would be lots of volunteers. I would be one.

staghounds said...

Ah, Japan.

We killed millions and millions of Japanese and Germans over a period of years before they surrendered.

The only thing that caused the surrender was the physical, personal, imminent, certain death of the dictators.

We burned Tokyo to the ground, do you really think the extra 200,000 dead in two provincial cities made the difference?

By January 1945, the Allies were slaughtering Japanese and German civilians pretty much at will.

Dictators and tyrants do not care even a little about dead peasants. Their own personal deaths or loss of power are their only fears.

I do not fear collateral damage when the attack is targeted correctly. If we kill the tyrants- which we now CAN do, we couldn't in 1940- their successors will be more interested in keeping their populations docile toward us.

It is stupid to use a grenade or a shotgun when a rifle will do.

Firehand said...

And, as of Thursday morning, more embassies attacked, with the one in Yemen having security breached and the flag burned.

The protesters breached the usually tight security around the embassy and reached the compound grounds but did not enter the main building housing the offices.
Gee, I wonder what happened to the 'usually tight security'? Surely the .gov of Yemen wouldn't have a hand in such things...

Kristophr said...

Oleg:

Libertarian anarchic theory fall flat on its face when dealing with nation states.

The government of Libya removed the US ambassador from his embassy, and handed him to AQ pukes, who raped and murdered him.

The only appropriate response is to formally declare war.

If you want to live in Libertoonianville, where acts of war are ignored, I suggest getting together with a bunch of like minded folks, and colonizing some unclaimed land.

I think Queen Maude Land in Antarctica is still unclaimed, now that Nazi Germany is no more.

Kristophr said...

Firehand: The Yemeni government sent in it's own troops, who then violently cleared the AQ goons from the streets around the embassy.

Apparently they see what is coming in 2013, and decided they DO NOT WANT.

Kristophr said...

staghounds: The majority in most Arab countries thinks killing Americans is a good thing.

They were dancing in the streets after 9-11, remember?

Islam is still at the medieval stage, where murdering or enslaving unbelievers is still considered pious.

Only extreme violence will beat a clue into them ... which is exactly what needed to happen before the Enlightenment put and end to most of that crap in Europe.

They will not voluntarily behave like civilized people.

Yes, there are some folks in these countries that are civilized. Too damned bad. Good people died in Germany and Japan as well.

When you try to "rifle" approach that libertarians advocate, your targets just disappear into the crowds, and you end up with a decades long guerrilla war.

Trent said...

As for Benghazi, I don't just want to nuke it, I want to invade it, round up the entire population and have a month of crucifixions and impalement, then when the area looks like a forest that Vlad the impaler would approve of, we hit it with the dirtiest most radioactive nuke we've got as a symbol of what happens when you fuck with an American representative.

This isn't a war, its retribution and for that there are no rules.

Trent said...

+ 1 everything Kristophr said!

Tam said...

Yeah, I'm thinking we can leave the Rape of Nanking stuff to the bad guys...

Kristophr said...

Agreed Tam.

As much as I would like to see the Libyan Embassy staff given the Vlad the Impaler treatment on the Whitehouse lawn, we should still stick to the Hague convention.

Declare them persona non-grata, send them home, and then formally declare war on said home.

Then make the rubble bounce.

Anonymous said...

Staghounds: yadayadayada, but the only factual timeline is this one:

(from wiki)

"...the United States called for a surrender of Japan in the Potsdam Declaration on 26 July 1945, threatening Japan with "prompt and utter destruction". The Japanese government ignored this ultimatum, and the United States deployed two nuclear weapons developed by the Manhattan Project. American airmen dropped Little Boy on the city of Hiroshima on 6 August 1945, followed by Fat Man over Nagasaki on 9 August...On 15 August, six days after the bombing of Nagasaki, Japan announced its surrender to the Allies, signing the Instrument of Surrender on 2 September, officially ending World War II. The bombings led, in part, to post-war Japan's adopting Three Non-Nuclear Principles, forbidding the nation from nuclear armament."

Take particular note of that last sentence and consider what might otherwise have been. Then extrapolate that to the situation now at hand.

Or, we can spend the next fucking decade, like the last one, watching news reports of Americans being slaughtered on the ground as we try to save and then civilize those who will have none of it, and will hate us all the more for the sacrifice.

Hmmm, what to do...

staghounds said...

The bombs didn't stop Stalin from enslaving Eastern Europe, nor Mao from causing millions of deaths in Korea, and tens of millions among his own people.

The masters of Libya, like Mugabe, sleep in findable places, at the end of findable trails of the transmission of power. Find them, kill them.

The next tyrant, or the one after that, will prefer ruling without messing with us.

Burning babies may be necessary, I submit that to the United States in 2012, it ought to be plan B or C.

Kristophr said...

So what is plan A?

Another Afghanistan? Harsh words?

Ten more years of TSA shit?

If Bush had responded to 9-11 by nuking Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, we would still have a mostly intact Constitution, and Dar Al Islam would be scared to fucking death of us.

Geoff said...

I'm just as outraged as the rest of you, but I'd advise against blanketing all of Libya under the same banner as the extremists. Unlike most Arab nations, who enjoy dancing in American blood, there is evidence that many Libyans are outraged over the attack, as there have been protests and reported anger across local social media over the killings. Chris Stevens was reportedly well liked by Libyans because of his work supporting Libyan rebels from the early stages of the revolution up until his death. Additionally, 10 Libyans died defending the embassy, and normal Libyan citizens tried to save the Ambassador, succeeding in getting him to a hospital, where he unfortunately succumbed to his injuries.

I believe in finding and killing these murderers. But I'd rather use a scalpel rather than a hammer. Contrary to what many think, there are good people in Libya who fought and bled for their chance at a better life. I'd rather we not wipe them all out.

(I've enclosed a set of pictures from one of the pro-US rallies from an Arabic Facebook group, as well as a letter from a Libyan woman who was involved in the revolution.)


https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.279016282203019.51898.111954325575883&type=3

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/12/1131058/-My-Libyan-American-step-daughter-writes-a-letter-to-U-S-embassy-employees-in-Tripoli-and-Benghazi

staghounds said...

Killing a bunch of underlings, lackeys, conscripts, and infants is stupid.

Plan A is to find, and kill: the current chiefs of state of Libya and Egypt, the bosses of their militaries, the bosses of their internal security, and the bosses of the cities where these attacks occurred.

And anyone in the same rooms or buildings with them.

Tell and show the world that personal death is the cost of our displeasure, and that high office under people who offend us is unhealthy.

The next bosses will be thrilled with the vacua into which they step, and might choose to make not angering us a higher priority than their predecessors did.

If not, repeat. Eventually we will get down to Carlos in the mail room, who will be a profoundly grateful ally.

As Bill Whittle said, no one likes a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

LauraB said...

More and more I tire of the thought of painting with too broad a brush. It was a damned broad brush painting the embassies with their sweaty clinging limbs.

"The Mookie War Creed: I am the Sword of my Family and Shield of my Nation. If sent, I will crush everything you have built, burn all that you love, and kill every one of you."

Just My 2¢ said...

"The Wind and the Lion". It was set in Morocco, but it's not a far stretch to move it to Libya.

One of the best military scenes in film history - a company of Marines double-timing through the narrow streets, with Springfields at port-arms, in formation, with a cadence.

Tam said...

Just My 2¢,

"a company of Marines double-timing through the narrow streets, with Springfields at port-arms"

Krags. They were Krags. :)

staghounds said...

Only because Stembridge didn't have enough Lee straight pulls...