Tuesday, February 20, 2007

Religion of Peaceful Arguments.

A Sunni Muslim cabdriver from Somalia engaged two of his fares in a religious dispute Sunday morning in Nashville, TN. Apparently unhappy with their take on things, he re-entered his cab, accelerated to ramming speed, jumped a curb, and attempted to run both men down. He was 50% successful, and is being held on $300,000 bond on charges of attempted homicide and license plate thievery. Authorites are unsure of the motive for the attack, saying they don't want to rush to blame the man's religion.


Marko said...

I agree that the guy had overdosed on his particular religion, but in the end the blame lies with his mental state and with him personally.

My whole problem with the whole "It's teh Muzlimz!" angle is that it's utterly unfair when people blame the religion when Muslims go off the deep end, but then blame the individual when, say, Christians flip out and kill folks. (You know, shooting doctors, or bombing clinics, drowning their kids, hanging folks from trees, or somesuch.) Then the perpetrator is "not a true Christian", whereas the Muslim is just acting out his faith, because "the Koran endorses those things."


Are people responsible for their actions, or not? Can you blame a guy's religion for his misdeeds? If you can, then it cuts both ways, and it'd be hypocrisy to say otherwise.

Tam said...

A violent religious nut is a violent religious nut.

I called Eric Rudolph one, and I'm calling this assclown one.

A concentration camp executioner was a bad man and responsible for his actions, but that doesn't let Nazism off the hook as a neutral influence.

Marko said...

Your header for this particular post certainly doesn't make that sort of distinction.

Look, I know it's fashionable to bash the particular superstition of the towelheads, but I don't see anything coming out of it except to lather up the masses and have people go, "Yeah! What she said! Teh muzlimz are teh ghey!"

Funny you should mention Nazism...I have a feeling that the swelling chorus of "Islam is the problem" (to which you seem to have added your voice recently) only has one eventual outcome in this country, and I fear that it'll look a lot like Buchenwald.

Could be that I'm just a pessimist, but too many people want this to be a holy war, because that kind of enemy is easy to categorize and identify. It won't be too long before the first people get killed for their religion rather than for their actions, or just because they "look Muslim".

Oh, wait, that's already happened...

phlegmfatale said...


DAL357 said...

marko, your point is well taken. Personal choice is always at the root of any volitional act, and it's always best to keep that in mind, lest unspeakable acts be committed on groups. It would be, however, foolish to ignore the exhortations to violence against non-believers that Islam holds as one of it basic tenets, and highest ideals.

BTW, my opinion is not based on a belief in Christianity, but on reason, for I am not a Christian.

Side note: Ayn Rand wrote an essay decades ago about faith and force being destroyers of the modern world. In light of current events, no truer words were ever penned.

Kaylee said...

Marko -

If the instances of, say Christians shooting doctors, hanging people from treets, etc was anything CLOSE to, say Muslims blowing up pizza parlors, shooting rockets into residential areas, calling for genocide, rioting over cartoons, blowing up ancient statues because they're not Islamic.... you might have a point.

As it is.. it's a stupid comparison.

The CULTURE of Islam as practiced in areas all over the Middle East, and in pockets from London to the Phillipines is just outright murderous and barbaric.

It's not the first murderous and barbaric culture certainly.. those have come in all flavors from Christian to pagan to atheist over the centuries. But right here, right now, that's the big one.

Of course the guy's responsible for his misdeeds. But that doesn't let his culture off the hook, any more than Stalin being an ass lets Communism off the hook.

Justin said...

So, does religion cause crazy nutcases to fly off the handle and kill, or do crazy nutcases just happen to gravitate to certain flavors of religion?

Kristopher said...

Islam teaches that victimizing non-islamics is OK, as long as you don't get caught.

The bible and torah do the same ... but jewish and christian clerics do not actively teach this doctrine.

With the exception of two small non-violent sects ( which are considered heretical for not preaching jihad ), Jihad is a requirement of Islam.

The Jihad can be merely verbal or mental if physical jihad is unsafe for political reasons, but you are supposed to pick up the sword if you can.

Kaylee said...

kristopher - would you be so kind as to back up those first two paragraphs?

I can think of some pretty horrid stuff the protagonists did in the Old Testament, but I can't offhand think of anything in the NT and later that says "victimizing [insert group] is OK, as long as you don't get caught." Just the opposite actually. What are you thinking of?

Al T. said...

For some time, I've had the idea that we ARE in a religious war - it's just that we don't recognize it. IMHO, religion seems to be an "enabler" if you'll forgive the pop psych phrase. Tomorrow I'm going to buy a Koran and see what falls out for myself.

Matt G said...

Serious question:
Does this qualify as a religion-motivated Hate Crime? Why or why not?

Now, does defining as such really help prevent such acts of attempted murder in the future? If so, how?

If it does not, then why do we need the definition, other than as a legitimate method of tracking motivations for violent crimes?

I don't ask these questions as one who defends any kind of hate crime or as one or feels vicimimzed, but rather as a student and practicioner of criminal justice who has been scratching his head for the last 15 years over the entire concept of regulation of Hate Crimes.

Tower Tales said...

Kaylee: as for the first paragraph of Kristophers' remarks ....
look up the Shariah..or religious laws, concerning Islam...he is indeed correct.
the second paragraph,not so much since practicing christians look to the new testament and therein, Jesus was an intercessor for our sins, therefore we're REQUIRED to forgive.
there is NO INTERCESSOR in Islam. Thats why they believe that blood is required to assuage any sort of slight or sin against their religion.
More people have been Killed in religious wars than in any other kind of conflict.
this IS a hate crime because it was motivated by the teachings of the Koran and this mans' inability to allow someone else to disagree with those teachings to the point where he uses violence to silence this disagreement.

Taken on its own, the koran isn't offensive. when its interpreted wrongly (and this is easy to do)..then its dangerous.
we ARE in a religious war imho..the muslims that espouse peace, do nothing to control their more violent brethren in the belief that since it furthers their religion and they didn't do it, then its not a big deal.
until they make an effort to control their own people and allow Muslims to back out of their religion (which is not allowed now), then they're a scourge to humanity.

buzz_knox said...

Personally, I'm just shocked that the media is even discussing the Muslim angle. It certainly got downplayed in the synagogue shootings and the LAX/El Al affair, and is now being declared irrelevant in the SLC shooting.

Kristopher said...

Some of the stuff in the Old Testament is even worse than "don't get caught". Should we really feed the children of enemies to bears? Or stone people for eating shellfish?

Christians and Jews have gotten past this ancient insanity.

Islam has yet to do so. As long as the Wahabi fanatics use Saudi money to control mosques, this 7th Century behavior by individuals will continue.

You might want to buy a copy of this book:

With the exception of Sufis and one Bagladeshi sect, Islam still supports sharia ... which also includes forcing conversion by the sword ... an infidel that refuses to convert may be "treated like a loose cow" ... i.e., enslaved under sharia.

A Muslim who becomes apostate, and converts to another faith is supposed to be executed under sharia ... in fact, one kashmiri in Pakistan is under a death sentence for converting the Christianity as we speak.

Alex said...

Well, that seems like a perfectly reasonable action...I do it all the time when some bible thumper tries to convert me. Those Gideons handing out bibles on street corners make for particularly inviting targets...



Bzzzt! Wrong answer!

Please get educated about islam.

Kaylee said...

Buzz -- I think it's a case of accumulating evidence. Granted it's just a handful of events so far, but as the occurences stack up it gets harder and harder to deny the obvious. News folk start looking like liars or idgits for downplaying it time after time, and eventually even they start seeing it.

The zeitgeist is shifting I think, slowly but surely.

kristopher - thanks for the link. One more to add to the pile. :)