I'm sure they were arguing about whether they should attend prayer meeting or go help out at the orphanage instead, but whatever the dispute was about, it got a little heated. So heated, in fact, that Disputant A took out his heater and shot Disputant B, not once, not twice, not four or five times, but thirteen(!) times, and then bailed out of the vehicle and fled on foot.
Whereupon Disputant B's momma ran toward the sound of the guns and drove her now-thoroughly-perforated son to the hospital.
Where he then gave the police a detailed description of his attacker and is apparently on the mend.
Lessons learned:
- Don't be sitting in cars in bad neighborhoods doing drug deals at 0100hrs.
- Some people take a lot of killin'.
- You can, in fact, miss in a phone booth.
- Did I mention the bit about "dope deals in bad neighborhoods"?
48 comments:
But he brought his mama along for the, uh, midnight choir practice. So that makes him a good boy right?
I'm thinking the house was nearby.
I'll bet both of em' had carry permits too....
Mike W.,
"I'll bet both of em' had carry permits too..."
Oh, sure. Also, the guy probably just wasn't aware that there's a local ordinance against discharging a firearm in city limits. ;)
I just hope that Disputant A remembered that Speedway, Indiana prohibits concealed carry (in order to combat crime) and openly carried said heater.
Shootin' Buddy
Don't nevah go to a gunfight wif noffin less than a 40!
It's always amazed me how some people die from a single shot to an arm or leg and others can take over dozen shots and survive. I realize it depends on which organs/ blood vessels are hit and such, but still.
Maybe Citizen B suffers from an undiagnosed zombie fever?
Head shots next time Citizen A!!!
Gerry
Looking at it another way, does it not take a heck of a lot of skill and medical knowledge to pit 13 slugs into someone withou a single kill shot? Obviously, the shooter is in at least fourth year of med school, and an Olympic free-style handgun contender to boot!
Anon. 1:49,
"Don't nevah go to a gunfight wif noffin less than a 40!"
For all we know, it was a .40.
13 hits, or 13 shots fired with the actual hit count being some fraction of that? You'd think the vic would be suffering from deafness and powder burns as much as GSWs.
Jim
w/v: mocolo. A little whistly instrument to be played at amateur pharmacists who can't shoot worth sh*t.
"For all we know, it was a .40."
I'd bet against that. 13 hits? Not fatal? That sez to me that either:
A: Disputant A was packing a hi-cap wundernine of some sort loaded with 115gr FMJ, and hit most all of his shots at contact distance, or
B: Disputant A took the time to reload but did not have time (or mehbee the inclination ) to finish the job... which I think is unlikely.
p.s. What landmark is that? I don't see anything of interest on a satelite photo.....
reflectoscope-
The story does say he was "shot 13 times" .... 'course with the diligence of today's journalism majors and today's newpaper editors (last week's journalism majors), the writer may have left out an "at" before the "13" .... but give them some credit: they did not reflexively stick "with an AK-47" in there after the word "times" ....
wv- "mativere" = Gwenivere after the operation.
I can still vividly recall seeing a TV news story out of Houston, TX even now some 33 years later, that I saw during my days at Sam Houston State University in Huntsville, TX.
The gist of it was that two officers had cornered a burglar inside a Houston business, made entry and nabbed said thief, but while in the process of handcuffing him, he broke free and stabbed one of the officer with a pair of scissors he scooped up off a nearby counter.
The other officer responded by shooting the thief 13 times with his .45 ACP duty weapon (which necessitated a reload since the officer was carrying a 1911), before being able to get him under control. The thief did not die, nor thankfully did the stabbed officer.
The news reorter was interviewing the Assistant Chief and expressed dismay at the officer pumping so many rounds int the suspect. The Assistant Chief dryly responded "Well, the .45 auto round has a lot of knockdown, but some people just take more shootin" than others".
I remeber glancing at my 1911 laying on my bedside table and thinking, "Hmmm, guess I better start carrying TWO spare mags instead of just one".
Tell me Google is kidding about the names of the two stadiums (stadii?) east of the river.
Well, I see that my troubles with this keyboard are not just my imagination. Please forgive all the typos in the previous comment
Loki1776,
Separately I might not have given each a second thought but seen together...
Two comments.
The two things that always amaze me about people is how easy they are to kill, and how hard they are to kill.
Also, nothing good happens after midnight.
Lewis:
Oh, I dunno, since I was working swing shift for a few years, both of my kids were conceived after midnight...
cap'n chumbucket
I've noticed a good thing or two happening after midnight. Never while parked with a stranger in a bad part of town, though.
"For all we know, it was a .40."
Two to one it was NOT a .22. Takers?
AT
Odds are it was a most likely a 9, followed by a .380, .40, or .45.
It is extremely statistically unlikely that Ice Dog was carrying a spare mag.
PS:
My SWAG from the extremely limited info is some generic full-size 9 and the thing either wasn't fully loaded or the guy missed two, or he didn't shoot all the way to slidelock.
SB is pulling for a Beretta 84/Browning BDA/Taurus PT-58, but that'd call for a 100% hit rate from a fully-loaded gun, plus knowing where there were 13 rounds of .380ACP for sale. ;)
cap'n chumbucket:
You know, when I was typing that, I almost amended it to read, "Nothing good happens out in town after midnight." For just the reasons you outlined.
Tam:
I could be completely off base, but my general rule is that any time I hear "thirteen shots fired" I think someone went to slide lock on a G23.
I think it was a S&W 500. He reloaded twice and left 2 in the gun just in case the momma got violent...
FN 5.7? After all, it is the preferred weapon of big game hunters.
http://www.dailynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12060413
Heh. I've known a guy who was (deservedly, not only was a he a boor, but he started it.) kicked in the crotch by a small but wicked young lady.
I think he went down faster and required more medical care than buddy in this story.
And probably got a lot less sympathy. I mean, it's one thing to pick on someone literally 1/2 yer size, but to gratuitously and loudly slander them in public and then hit them hard enough to draw blood and knock them down.... Let's just say it's a good thing for him she got up so fast and nailed him with such finality, the rest of the crowd was moving in on him.
Hmm...are there any .22lr or .25acp pistols that hold 13 rounds? I'm going to guess either that or a 5-7.
I don't suppose there's an outside chance he got his hands on a very early release of a PMR-30, is there?
Or that he had a SAA and seriously took his sweet time?
"You can, in fact, miss in a phone booth."
The FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin is surprisingly good reading. About 3 years ago or so, they had an interesting article - mostly trying to convince people to upgrade from 9mm FMJ rounds. (though the .40 and .45 stats were surprising too.)
On miscreant was shot more than 15 times with 9mm and ran 3 or 4 blocks to a friends before collapsing. (He was interview in hospital and said the bullets were like bee stings.)
But then as someone else said, pain is not relative to survival.
Stretch & Wolfwood,
I'm voting against the Five seveN for two reasons:
1) Tubby desk sergeants from Cape Cod to Cucamonga work themselves into a lather forwarding each other emails about the OMG NEW COP KILLER GUN FROM FN!!!1!ONE!. If they'd actually found a shell casing from one, we'd have heard about it.
2) I'd wager that the number of Five-seveNs that have actually been used in crimes in the US could fit in a not-very-large suitcase.
Well, Since I've never been to Indy, I'm assuming the shooting took place just down the road from the House of Jayne Bridal Shop on W.16 and N.Holmes, right?
For the Weapon: Put me down for a CZ-83 (13 round magazine) in either .380 or 9mm. Makarov, Ball ammo in both cases.
The landmark I was referring to is just off-screen to the west. It's large and oval. ;)
Oh, that's where they used to have good car races before there was Nascar, right? But Seriously, House of Jayne Bridal Shop? You don't think that's where the local chapter of the Jayne Austen Book Club meets, do you? I'm thinking of seeing if Breda will allow one to meet in her library just down the road from me, but the wife is still looking in her knitting books for the Clever Hats pattern, so it may be awhile. :)
"plus knowing where there were 13 rounds of .380ACP for sale. ;)"
here you go:
.380 ammo
http://www.scottsdaleammo.com/category_s/40.htm
I'm upping the odds against .22 to at least a hundred to one.
Get shot thirteen times closeup by that little zippy and your insides will not be conducive to "recovery".
And based on the number of $199 "preban" Bryco .380's I personally retailed in the 90's and that had a mag capacity of um, thirteen...the odds look pretty good for that.
AT
Why a .22" 40gr projo @ 1100 fps is supposed to have magic powers to scramble internal organs while a .36" 115gr bullet at the same velocity is barely deadlier than a BB gun is an urban myth about whose origins I've long wondered.
"And based on the number of $199 "preban" Bryco .380's I personally retailed in the 90's and that had a mag capacity of um, thirteen...the odds look pretty good for that."
Based on the number of Bryco .380s I saw, the ones that could fire thirteen consecutive rounds... Well, let's just say that they must have sent the good ones to FL. ;)
Tam,
probably due to the .22's history of somewhat random wanderings throughout the body. They seem to bounce off bone like a pin ball, in addition to following contours of organs and other weird happenings. They have been known to travel down limbs after torso hits. And even transported around the body in the circulatory system. People sometimes die weeks after being shot with .22's. Not a good stopper, but still very lethal.
Will,
Well, yeah, I've heard all that, too. But never from any forensic pathologists or anybody like Fackler, or even Marshall & Sanow.
Origins of our urban myth (legend): anecdotal evidence?
Logic that a pellet-sized projectile at a range of inches will attain more penetration and is less predictable once it does than a peanut sized one at the same speed entering a semi-solid mass which once entered features all manner of hard richochet-inducing material interspersed with soft and easy to perforate material that reacts rather negatively to said penetration? Just a guess.
You'd think there'd be some empirical ballistics test data that might or might not match up to perception...but it doesn't matter, the odds stand; so it's still a hundred of my bucks against one from any takers that the tool of our young man's choice was not a .22.
And those crappy little Bryco 380's -they pumped out a version in 9 (Includes TWO High Capacity Clips!) about the same time- were loose as a goose and hardly ever generated a complaint; same for frickin' Lorcins which rarely failed to go bang. Got a lot more feeding complaints from buyers of $500-$700 guns than $100-$200 Ring of Fire products.
AT
"they pumped out a version in 9 (Includes TWO High Capacity Clips!) about the same time- were loose as a goose and hardly ever generated a complaint"
Yeah, I actually bought one. Didn't work.
Sold a zillion of 'em. Most (apparently) "worked" as far as feedin' and firin'...though how ya gonna complain when a five pound chunk with all the aesthetics and ergonomics of a brick actually goes bang at least most of the time if it only cost a hundred bucks?
I guess the featured citizen's worked at least to that degree as well...though he probably had a Glock.
Tomayto tomahto.
AT
Tam,
can't claim to hang out with any forensic pathologists. And none of the medical types I've known have been ER specialists. I'm simply recounting what I've read and heard from those who do hang out with them. And, from a lifetime of reading about odd things that happen. No idea if it's due to the sheer number of people (and animals) shot with the .22, or if it does have some quirky terminal ballistic effects, or a combination there of.
All of the reports are, of course, anecdotal information. Can't be anything else, as trying to quantify its terminal ballistics in humans would be a monumental project that would be mostly pointless, except to us info junkies :-)
BTW, the circulatory story was about a guy who dropped dead of heart failure. Autopsy found a .22 slug blocking a heart valve. Investigators found the decedent had been shot in the leg, and the wound had already healed.
The story I had in mind when I stated "weeks later", was about a stop and rob clerk shot in the back room. He was a little slow in killing the BG (actually a girl), and paid the price by finally dying 3 weeks later. [ I'll let someone else run with the "bad girl" line :D ]
My bet is it was a 9mm. Turds like the gun although it’s a piece of crap.
I have a friend who was an emergency room nurse who had an “entrepreneur” from downtown who had been show 12 times and walked out two days later. Yes, 9mm.
Moral of the story, use a 45 with jacketed hollow point. Two shots and he’s cold!
MikeAT,
You should maybe read Montie's comment above.
The .45 is piss-weak. It is, after all, just a pistol.
Due to NJ's painfully stupid gun laws, I would almost always see a couple of boxes of .380 lying around even in the darkest days of the ammo shortage. My best guess is a combination of in-state gunnies having to really think about what gun they want to get since another chance might not come along for a couple of months and it being prohibitively difficult for out-of-staters to buy ammo in NJ.
I briefly considered running ammo into PA :) AFAICT, as a private citizen it would have been perfectly legal under laws of both states and the feds.
When I was there a few years ago, the gun store clerk wouldn't let me touch anything. Said he wasn't even allowed to unlock the display case if I didn't have a NJ ID and gun card.
Out of staters can obtain an NJ FID; which would permit you to purchase a longarm and "pistol ammunition" (as well as the generally unrestricted ability to legally possess an unloaded longarm wihtout having to comply with the draconian restrictions on possession of firearms). "Pistol ammunition" is undefined in the law; many stores card you for any ammo.
Remember, it is Federal law that prohibits out of staters from purchasing handguns for transport out of state.
The process for obtaining an NJ FID for a non-resident is the same as that for residents, save for a longer time limit; which, since the time limit may be flouted with no consequence, is meaningless.
(WV: wingkyc - the smallest piece of chicken-like substance at a certain fast food joint?)
Repeat after me,
"ALL handguns suck. Some suck more than others."
You want "stopping power"? Try a howitzer with cannister. That, "Set your phasers to emulsify."
Anything much less? "Some fellows just need more killin'."
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