View From The Porch: Sparkenspitzen smokenbelchers...

Monday, July 05, 2010

Sparkenspitzen smokenbelchers...

I'm a little hazy when it comes to muzzle-loading arms, at least outside of the more common varieties of military front-stuffers, so when I saw this blunderbuss-looking thingummy, I was good and stumped. Hopefully someone out on teh intarw3bz can identify it.

14 comments:

Kristophr said...: Pretty cool. A classic blunderbus.

Throw a palm full of FFg down the bore, followed by the same volume of shot, and a wad of tow or cloth, and tamp it in.

Prime the pan and fire.

If you want to be anal about it, maybe 50 to 70 grains of powder, and a standard 12 gauge load of shot.; 4:34 PM, July 05, 2010
Firehand said...: That pretty much covers it.

CVA used to sell a blunderbuss kit for a decent price; not any more.; 4:45 PM, July 05, 2010
Anonymous said...: Kristopher; You put an over-powder card or wad between the shot load and the powder charge, then a card over the shot charge to hold it in. Think of it as assembling something like a modern shotgun load, but with BP and from the muzzle. Things haven't changed all that much.

Tam; Check out Track of the Wolf, black powder organizations, etc., and you'll find a ton of information. You'll need better photos though, I expect. Can't see a whole lot from here. -- Lyle; 5:29 PM, July 05, 2010
Michael W. said...: But for the love of Crom, have the owner check it to see if it has a old load in it before he starts messing with it. I have seen one or two of those old timers that were loaded and forgotten. The powder was still good after a LONG time.; 5:44 PM, July 05, 2010
Stranger said...: Well, it is a flinter donderbuchsen, or thunder pipe if you insist, but I cannot see enough to do more than guess about the vintage.

I think I saw something similar, including the raised name, at the Davis museum in Claremore but that has been 60-61 years. If so, it is probably late 17th century.

I would be kind of cautious about touching it off. There is a remote possibility that it could be middle European and over three centuries old. If so, a long lanyard and a very light charge is in order

Stranger; 5:52 PM, July 05, 2010
Ed Rasimus said...: Some history, some description, some details and some links here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blunderbuss; 5:54 PM, July 05, 2010
Ed Foster said...: Saw it's twin brother at the Durham gun show 3 or 4 years ago.
I can't swear to the name on the lock, but it was British. Not a bad copy actually, and presumably some Pathan gunsmith has a real one to use as a pattern.

The really cool toy was Pakistani or Indian if I remember. That Brit military butt was a dead giveaway.

So maybe 20th century, cranked out for the tourist trade, and made from the finest purloined railroad track.

Were it I firing the thing, I would, as somebody suggested earlier, use a long lanyard, and check the thread on the barrel plug afterward to see if it was leaking gas.

I had heard that the flared barrel was for scooping up sand from the deck of a warship. But those stories do grow in the telling I guess.; 7:55 PM, July 05, 2010
OrangeNeck said...: I like my modern in-line muzzleloader by T/C.; 8:37 PM, July 05, 2010
Kristophr said...: Anon 5:29:

This ain't a nice Berretta percussion O/U. It a flinter blunderbus. Niceties like cushion wads, over-powder, and over-shot cards are kinda missing the point.

The original owner probably used a handful of gravel insteada that 'spensive shot on occasion ...

Oh, and this ain't a smokeless weapon, so I wouldn't worry a whole lot about kabooms. Just check it for cracks and excessive pits with a bore light before shooting it.; 9:22 PM, July 05, 2010
Drang said...: This ain't a nice Berretta percussion O/U. It a flinter blunderbus. Niceties like cushion wads, over-powder, and over-shot cards are kinda missing the point.
The point behind wads is to prevent the load from falling out.; 11:43 PM, July 05, 2010
Bubblehead Les. said...: Similar weapon was shown on a recent episode of "Pawn Brokers" on the Hitler Channel.; 11:44 PM, July 05, 2010
Chas S. Clifton said...: If it were original, it might be considered a "coach gun," the origin of the term "riding shotgun."

Dixie Gun Works might have had sold a kit or replica, I forget.

But as Ed Foster says, the stock looks pretty recent, relatively speaking, so maybe it was someone's low-tech hold-up weapon.

This is a jump, but it reminded me of the Cape buffalo skull that a friend has, which came with a steel ball bearing -- fired from some homemade muzzle loader -- embedded non-fatally in the bone. Oops.; 11:48 PM, July 05, 2010
Anonymous said...: Au contraire to the 'safety issue is moot' idea. Yes, BP is a relatively lower pressure propellant, but this ain't a Daisy BB gun. It use explosions to work.

Just because people are pretty lucky in foolin' around with the dear auld things, doesn't mean that YOU are going to share in the safety of smiley ignorance.

Get the structure checked out by someone that resembles a competent professional. Unless you have an amphibian capability to regenerate body parts like eyes and fingers.

Oh,yeah, there are lots of folks around with experience of owning and shooting antique BP stuff. And they may have a pretty good idea of what to look for so far as safety and function. Good on them and the guns they have to hand.

But that hands on knowledge isn't easily transmittable by the magic electron good. So, find the local BP club/clan by checking with the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association and have one of the resident BP smiths check it out. And show you to make a cliken-spark-smacker work most of the time.

Besides, most of 'em are good folks and treat newcomers well, Just don't start gun-swappin' and such until you know a little more about the guns. ;~`)

And, yeah,yeah...everyone has their own idees and is an expert and can dispense electronic advice till the page overfloweth. so take what you need and smile at the rest, and happy clouds of white smoke.

John the Red,flint-klinker.; 9:15 AM, July 06, 2010
staghounds said...: Criminy, are you people CRAZY???

Palmful of powder? How big a palm, and how full?

Sheesh.

First, will the barrel hold a magnet? (Basic test for pot metal.)

It LOOKS, based on the pictures, like a 1780-1830 period basic blunderbuss, typical English form. More toward the latter half of that period than the earlier.

It's not a cut down anything, it started life this way. Too small to be a punt gun those were huge, almost light artillery. And it has nothing in common with a Baker rifle other than it's a flintlock shoulder arm.

If it's been in the family 40 years as you say, then it is almost certainly not a modern fake. The "Sharpe" (or S. Harpe) on the lock looks right, too.

It SHOULD have visible proof marks on the barrel down by the tang. If so, they will tell you if it's English, or from some other place.

It may not be proofed, and that's not probative of origin or originality. Only guns offered for sale in England had to be proved, not ones commissioned. And America had no proof system.

It looks shootable, but one step at a time. GO CAREFULLY.

I gather your interest is in shooting THIS GUN. If you just want to shoot a flint blunderbuss, get a morern repro. WAY cheaper and WAY WAY safer.

First, check to see if it's loaded! Run a rod down the barrel until it stops- then put your thumb on the point at which it emerges from the muzzle. Now lay it alongside the barrel- the length of the rod tat went in the barrel SHOULD BE the length from muzzle to touch hole.

If there's an inch or so of difference, it may well be loaded.

Then,

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=33442

Once it's not loaded,drop a tiny flashlight, butt first, down the barrel. Look good, or is it like the surface of the moon?

Now you can start taking it to bits. If you like, send me your address and I'll LEND you a book on the subject.

Once it's apart and clean, you'll have a better idea of whether you might want to take a chance. For all you can tell, it's merely a tracery of rust from the inside.

A look at the bottom of the barrel, and at the inside of the barrel, will tell you if it's got a "decorator" barrel that's cast or made from seamed tubing.

I agree that you should hunt up some actual, real life muzzle loader shooters who BUILD GUNS. Get an expert's opinion.

And once the lock is clean, you can see if it works. NOT in the gun, build a fixture to hold it in a vise!

The wood is the weakest point in these things. Firing a flintlock puts a big stress on the lock mortoise and wrist of the gun. If it's all oil soaked, it will be very soft and crumbly. You'll find out if it is when you take it apart, too.

DO NOT BE CAVALIER ABOUT THIS GUN. IT WILL DEFINITELY KILL.

You'll work up loads slowly, starting with (assuming it's about 75 calibre) HALF the recommended charge of powder and HALF the shot weight. Then up the shot weight gradually, then the powder charge.

DO NOT SHOOT IT IN THE GUN.

Get two ropes and sling it from a tree limb or saw horse. Fire it with cannon fuse.

AND GET BEHIND SOMETHING THAT WILL STOP A BULLET.

Once you have fired it with whatever you consider to be its maximum load, then see if the lock sparks well in the gun.

Put it together, and give it a try.; 8:36 PM, July 06, 2010