Saturday, October 05, 2013
Traffic stop gone rodeo...
I linked this news story at S.W.A.T. Magazine's FB page the other day, but figured I'd embed the video here, too. The incident happened in August and OSP has now released the dash cam video. It looks like a pretty straight-up Blue Suicide, but who knows why a dude would up and do this with his kids in the back seat. Judging by his actions as he stepped out of his car, it looks like his cheese was pretty well slid off his cracker.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
17 comments:
What a strange story. Agree on the (apparent) suicide-by-cop intent. Stood there quite some time with hands not visible before doing anything else. Unless he was nerving himself to go on?
Speaking of standing there, the Oregonian article says "The video shows Allen stepping out of his car and assuming a military pose." I'll leave it to people with actual service, but is standing around with your left hand in your pocket a "military pose"? Okay, he had pretty good posture, but whut?
Another article noted that JVA was 34, had fathered his first child at age 15 and was a grandfather. Also his three kids in the car were 10, 13 and 15. So is there another 18 or 19 year old progeny out there? Not that it's pertinent to the issue at hand, but being a grandfather at age 34 is (I hope) pretty out there for this country.
I couldn't tell if he was standing at parade rest or just getting hands on a gun behind his back or both.
Clearly, he had precognition of the gov't shutdown and was driven to madness over it.
Or something.
Just trying to work in a narrative here.
I'm beginning to wonder if I should get one of those Cross-Draw Holsters made for Drivers. Between Motorcycle "Rallys," "Crazy Ladies from Connecticut," and this guy, it makes me wonder what the heck is waiting out on the Roads anymore.
Did he accidentally dump his own mag going around the car or was that a change?
It looks like he picks it back up on the way back by.
Tam ~ I think his left hand was in a front pocket, not behind his back...?
Matthew ~ As far as I can tell, he dumped his magazine at the moment he got shot in the chest. At least, I *think* that's what caused the flinch/jump/turn away motion at the same moment the mag fell. If that's the case, it would probably be a spasmodic, reflexive clenching of the hand that made the mag drop.
pax,
It looked to me like he was initially standing at parade rest, and then there was a movement of his hand and shoulder that made me think "Right there is where I'd vote to clear the officer in a furtive movement shooting," and then there was a bit more time before he actually lunged and started shooting.
I could be wrong. I'm recollecting this after only two watchings many hours ago. I'd like to see a bigger/clearer video to see how it matches up to my recollections.
Watch his left hand as he gets out of the car -- you can see it go into his pocket. (Um, also ... the video at your second link seems a bit clearer to my eye. Might've just been my connection.)
Suicide? What?
If you want someone to kill you, shooting back, taking cover, and then getting in your car to escape probably isn't the best course of action.
He was hiding his gun, obviously.
Not suicide by cop, but rather someone who had convinced himself that the cop was a threat. He got as close as he could, and then let the cop have it, and fled when the cop went down.
Again, about the right age for a schizophrenic to completely snap. When you surrender to delusion, anything can be confabulated into a threat.
Thankfully the LEO survived...
James and Kristophr state it well. This wasn't a classic Suicide By Cop. In those, the actor steps out with gun at the ready, openly displayed, and may throw a few rounds downrange in the general direction of the cop. In this case, the actor concealed the gun, and intentionally closed as much distance as possible before shooting the cop. And he hit the cop, too. But for body armor, that trooper may have perished before he was able to get a round into the BG.
As an aside, this is a great example of why I NEVER yell at the driver to get back into the car, on a traffic stop. If they're acting at all squirrely, why on earth would I want to put them back into the car, where they are partially concealed, have access to whatever was in reach out of view, and have access to a means of escape or crushing me?!? Cops go into vapor lock with the whole "he got out before I told him to", and turn it into a question of the driver's compliance. Give it up, friends. Let's turn it back into what it was supposed to be: a safety interaction.
Otherwise, good shoot, under fire.
Pax: I agree, but I can't shoot everyone who suddenly snatches their ID case from their back pocket.
Also, the trooper was busy operating the radio while the actor was pointing a gun at him. Bad form, old boy. Better to be annointing the tango with divine lead, rawther than talk about it over the wireless, eh?
I have 0 LEO training so I will expose my ignorance in order to learn. This is strictly a curiosity question, and not in any way REMF criticism of the guy taking the incoming.
Would it have been a bad thing for the LEO to have backed his auto another 50 or 100 feet away to provide a little more distance between him and the perp? In many things, distance is your friend.
I also understand the massive adrenaline dump that probably occurred might have clouded thinking just a bit.
Just glad the bad guy DIRT and the good guy is going to be OK.
And another object lesson in how long someone can continue to fight/function even after a fatal hit...
Chris Hernandez had a pretty good run down of the dashcam video:
http://chrishernandezauthor.com/2013/10/05/analysis-of-the-oregon-state-patrol-shooting/
Worth readin' ..... as is all the stuff I've read from him.
-jimbob86
@leaddog:
No, that's not bad thinking, but you can't really do it EVERY TIME someone jumps out. Lots of people come out of their cars early. Some to be friendly, some simply (as this guy was pretending to do) to argue their traffic stop. If you always slam it into reverse every time and try to negotiate from 50 yards, you're going to find that things can get tedious, and problems that weren't there before crop up (You left the scene. Is he free to go?). (You're backing. You should look back while backing. Are you looking away from the threat?) (The guy wanted to shake your hand and tell you that his daddy was a retired cop. Now he's pissed.) (Et cetera, etc.)
Usually, the first thing to do, when a guy pops out, is to get out of your car, get mobile (with regard to cover), and see about controlling the situation.
HOWEVER, if the guy comes out armed, and you see a clear threat? Slamming it into reverse and addressing the issue with a patrol rifle in hand is a really good idea, and one that I advocate.
Post a Comment