Thursday, December 09, 2010

Just add agents provacateur and stir!

When the government went on about the dangers of home-grown terrorists, I didn't realize they meant that they were the ones actually growing them.

The FBI is beginning to remind me of a guy I used to know who would mutter "I just saved your life!" every time he drove past a pedestrian in the street.

17 comments:

Bob said...

Not too sure that I agree with you on this one, Tam. These wannabe jihadis are trying to find legit Al Qaeda contacts by going on the internet. Better that the Feebs do the recruiting than a real AQ type. Otherwise you can end up with another John Walkder Lind or Adam Gadahn. Or Times Square bomber, if you exclude American coverts. I think you're just snarking here because the Feebs have been rather clumsy in their recently-publicized efforts.

George said...

They taught us in criminal law that entrapment is completely based on the concept IN WHOM DID THE CRIMINAL IDEA ORIGINATE?
If he's just a stupid kid, spouting off rhetoric, that's one thing, but, if he's the one who brought up the idea of the crime, AND commited the first overt act...
then, the onus is on him. Of course, the feds are famous (infamous) for pursuing fringe types to commit something (think Randy Weaver), rather than going after active bad guys. That could be dangerous!

Joanna said...

I'm just reminded of the 14-year-old pothead hippy my sister ran into once who was convinced the FBI was tapping his phone.

I wonder how long it'll be before the FBI gets played and the bomb goes off for realsies?

Hypnagogue said...

1995?

D.W. Drang said...

That's what I wonder about every time one of these "It wasn't really a bomb" things come up.

The Feebs apparently spent a lot of time trying to convince Mohammud Mohammud Mohammud, the wannabe Portland, Orygun, Fesitvus Tree bomber, that Violent Jihad was not, in fact, his best option.

Or so the Seattle Slimes said; they said it was "the standard script"

Stretch said...

The Assistant U.S. Attorney took great pains to mention the wanna-be bomber asked 4 friends to join him in the plot and all 4 turned him down. And ONE actually called the police. So why is the AUSA so happy that 3 would allow this to proceed via their inaction?

Newbius said...

If they are trying to get you to blow something up, they are Feds. If they are trying to get you to sell something illegal, they are Feds. If they are trying to get you to conspire against the government, they are Feds. If anybody is spouting off about how somebody should DO SOMETHING about those nasty feebs, THEY ARE FEDS.

Face it, all agents are provocateurs. :)

If you really want to fear somebody, fear the lone wolf actor. It is the guy who DOESN'T talk about it that you need to worry about.

Britt said...

Sting operations are legal so long as force is not implied by the undercover LEO in order to make the bust. Drug stings, for example, have been shot down in court because undercover cops intimidated the suspect into buying the drugs.

I would argue that when feds pose as violent terrorists and attempt to recruit Muslims here in America that there is always a threat of force. One of the things bomb factories in Iraq always have is handcuffs, to make sure their glorious martyrs in the VBIED don't decide at the last second that paradise can get along without them for many more years.

Because if someone comes up to you and tells you they're from the Sword of Islam Crimson Jihad of the Righteous Allah Local No. 491 and says that all good Muslims aid the jihad however they can, well you're not going to say no. Because that would mean your a bad Muslim, and we all know how the boys in the caves feel about bad Muslims. So from a legal standpoint I'd argue the threat of violence is omnipresent, whenever feds are posing as violent terrorists. If you say no to helping them, they'll kill you, if they really were terrorists I mean.

So yeah, I think it is entrapment. Setting up a web forum where the fish can come to you is one thing, but if you seek them out and get them to help you, that's entrapment, because no one with half a brain is going to say no to helping a terrorist conspiracy. If you say no, you're dead.

theirritablearchitect said...

This security kabuki reminds me of a certain line out of Pulp Fiction, spoken by Winston Wolfe.

Anonymous said...

"If they are trying to get you to blow something up, they are Feds. If they are trying to get you to sell something illegal, they are Feds."

A good friend's relative was busted in Alaska for "conspiracy" after a conservation with an undercover fed in a bar over how to smuggle dope. Turns out the guy had a plane (the means) and that's all they needed.
So watch your mouth guys, especially when it comes to the O' guy and what you really think of him.

Old NFO said...

Well, they can't catch the real ones... just sayin...

alath said...

I don't much care whether it's entrapment or not. If they're entrapping a real terrorist mastermind, who is a real threat to actually pull off a successful attack, then go ahead, entrap away.

That's not the impression I get from the FBI's recent Parade of Sociopathic Losers, though. These are more the kind of pathetic wannabes who live in their mom's basement pleasuring themselves to jihadi porn on the internet, and spout jihadi rhetoric in chat rooms, but couldn't organize their way out of a wet paper bag without a whole team of FBI agents helping them along.

Don't really have much sympathy for the sociopathic losers, either.

But when the FBI hauls a sociopathic loser out of his mother's basement and parades him around as a terrorist mastermind, what we have is not law enforment or even war on terrorists, but simply another act in the performance art known as Security Theater of the Absurd.

So the FBI thinks they can keep us safe by rounding up all the sociopathic losers in the country, paistakingly entraping them in fake terrorist plots of their own (FBI's) devising, and lock them up for life?

No, the FBI knows better. They know there is an abundant supply of sociopath losers out there. The nation will never run out of angry morons willing to push the button on a bomb.

Meanwhile, the guys who are both violent sociopaths AND capable of effective, organized action, can continue plotting and scheming and recruiting, totally unmolested because the FBI is out rooting around in Mommmys' basements.

Besides being ineffective law enforcement, if nothing else, these performances are an insult to all our intelligence.

DirtCrashr said...

They're doing what they always do, it's a pathway laid down based on what works for the prosecutors. There's a certain amount of pressure to succeed, they get in trouble if the I in FBI comes to Nothing.

Tam said...

alath,

"But when the FBI hauls a sociopathic loser out of his mother's basement and parades him around as a terrorist mastermind, what we have is not law enforment or even war on terrorists, but simply another act in the performance art known as Security Theater of the Absurd."

Wisht I'd wrote that.

D.W. Drang said...

Here's the link to the Seattle Slimes story (which I also posted in comments to a SayUncle post about Mohammud Mohammud Mohammud in Portland):
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2013555462_apusterrorismstings.html

Anonymous said...

They just do this kind of stuff so they can point to all the "terrorists" they stopped when a real terrorist succeeds.

Mark said...

When your funding's in doubt, manufacture a criminal.