Tuesday, December 16, 2008

If you look like food, you will be eaten.

Breda:
Women often can't tell the difference between being polite and being submissive. We believe we have to be accommodating to perfect strangers. We fear being thought of as anything other than "nice." We apologize too much and for no good reason. We are the first to offer up that fake smile, the one that says, "Please don't hurt me. See? I'm harmless."

Act like prey and that is exactly what you will become.

And more from LabRat:
[I]f you’re allowing yourself to be pushed without a word or look, you’re also confirming to the pusher that you either aren’t aware of them or that you’re reluctant to stop them when they act in this fashion. That’s a go-light to anybody who might have predatory intentions rather than merely pushy ones- and if they’re standing in your space anyway, there’s no room or time left to take action to stop them if they act on it.
So many unconscious behaviors, from the head-down scurry across the grocery store parking lot to the apologetic grimace and half-wave to the person you fear you've offended in the crowd, are not just submissive or conciliatory, but are actually prey signals. Owning the ground on which you stand can be a hard concept for us to internalize...

34 comments:

OA said...

Be interesting to hear the thoughts of European women.

the pawnbroker said...

old he-coon pokes his head into the little opening, eyeing the juicy morsel oddly hanging in midspace in front of him...looks around at the unnatural mesh sides of this little cave, and backs out, still hungry for that morsel,
but he didn't get to be an old grayback by being naive...

besides, this trapper doesn't need help spinning her hitcount wheel...

jtc

Liberty Girl said...

>>Be interesting to hear the thoughts of European women.

Oh, they're allowed to have those?

Matt G said...

There's clearly a line that women must walk, between being properly guarded and being perceived by one and all as being a bitch, and I'm damned glad that I don't have to walk it.

Tam said...

Eh. I find it gets easier as I get older. :)

Ed Foster said...

Eight plus years in a Polish speaking factory, where getting groped is an hourly occurance for attractive and unattached 20 somethings. As long as it stays below the ribcage, it's best to grin and try to make a joke of it.

Only a minority of the men do it, but the others chuckle and give the "boys will be boys" grin.

On commenting to one young lady "This is America, you don't have to take that crap", I was told "In Poland, they don't have laws like that, and as long as I work here, I'm still in Poland".

A 30ish buddy of mine, the foreman of the lathe department, asked one of the girls why things had changed so much since he left Poland 15 or 16 years before.

He commented that virtually all unattached girls were completely promiscuous, "Giving it away like a handshake", something that wouldn't have been tolerated back in the 80's.

Her comment was "You have to bang 7 or 8 guys before you find one who might be interested in marriage". Not what I would call a culture with any great future prospects.
It should be pointed out that the Poles stand head and shoulders above most of their neighbors to the east and south in terms of morals and any remaining sense of responsibility, and the kids I worked with were the brightest and most aggresive of their generation. It's not a Polish problem, it's a European problem.

The difference between people from these cultures in their mid 30's and those a decade younger is diametric. Not only in morals, but work ethic.

The owner of the factory, still a drinking buddy, is thinking of selling the business, because he needs more cheap, trainable help, and can't find them any more in his own ethnic group.

Because of his position in the community, he can't hire outside it for the Vietnamese and Cubans he'd like to bring in. Sad.

Breda said...

I really don't need any "help" with my hitcounter, you know. I seem to be doing just fine on my own.

Ahab said...

Somehow, I think Breda's average 1k+ daily hits don't need any help from you, Pawnie.

Just a thought though.

pax said...

Eh. I find it gets easier as I get older. :)

Yup.

"It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." -- Andre Gide

The truth of that sinks in a little more with every passing year.

Liberty Girl said...

>>There's clearly a line that women must walk, between being properly guarded and being perceived by one and all as being a bitch, and I'm damned glad that I don't have to walk it.

No, some of us embrace it early on. If a man (or woman) has the nuts to get through it then they can be considered for long-term association.

the pawnbroker said...

arab said: "Just a thought though."

good start...more thought and less lip; always a good idea for smarmy twerps with nothing of worth to say.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm. I wonder what the Pawnbroker's hit count looks like this morning?

Nah, that couldn't be it.

Breda said...

Honestly, pawnbroker, for someone who accused me of being too aggressive and was concerned about me escalating a social situation, you certainly have a habit of starting a lot of ugly altercations yourself. It makes it a little difficult to take anything you say seriously.

You seem to be a bored bully who amuses himself by starting drama and insulting people online because he has the protection of internet anonymity. You have revealed yourself to be nothing but a common troll - a pathetic, insecure creature who craves attention.

Might be time for you to find another hobby.

jimbob86 said...

If it looks like a rabbit, and acts like a rabbit, it will be treated as such: prey for all predators.

If it looks like a rabbit and bites like a rattlesnake, rabbits will be safer, and predators more reticent.

Once again, Breda: Good on ya!

Pax, Tam- Thousands like you just as you are. We would not have you change a bit.

Mike W. said...

"good start...more thought and less lip; always a good idea for smarmy twerps with nothing of worth to say."

Keep on digging that hole Pawnbroker....

Ahab said...

Oh man, I <3 this guy so much. So far we have false appeals to authority, outright insults, veiled racism and sexism, man, what's next? At this juncture, the internet handbook tells me there are exactly two places we can go with this:

1. Lolcats
2. Godwin

I'm hoping for lolcats personally, because damn, I love me some images of kitties with crazy captions.

the pawnbroker said...

"the" breda said: "Might be time for you to find another hobby"

maybe; i tried but it's too much fun!

but certainly it is time for her, in all her giddy newfound empowerment, to realize that the big ol' burrheaded boy at her shoulder had a lot more to do with her barfly buddy backing off than her imagined "deathstare"...before some innocent dies a wicked death trying to emulate her foolishness.

insults beget insults, notwithstanding your admonishment to "be polite"...odd that your definitions and insults are so selective and subjective; your rahrah section aren't trolls? but don't you see that those loyal subjects are loath to point out that the empress is naked as a jaybird? no future in that...

sorry, tam...i tried.

Paul Simer said...

pawnbroker:

I thought you were going to bow out of this? Somewhere near the 30-comment mark at Breda's?

"sorry, tam...i tried."

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/funny-pictures-escape-plan-fail.jpg

(There's the start of your lolcats, Ahab.)

Ahab said...

Hahahahaha lolcats. Man, those crazy kitties never get old.

but certainly it is time for her, in all her giddy newfound empowerment, to realize that the big ol' burrheaded boy at her shoulder had a lot more to do with her barfly buddy backing off than her imagined "deathstare".

There's that sexism again. Implying that Breda can't actually defend herself, and it was all Mike's doing, eh?

OH OH, CALL ME AN ARAB AGAIN, that was awesome how you tried to use that like it was an insult. Also, while you're at it, I don't suppose you could say something about how we're all Nazis rising to defend Breda or something, because if you Goodwin this thread in the next three or four posts, I win 5 bucks. And with 5 bucks, I can buy a pint at the local bar. Where I'll be carrying. Legally. OH NOES.

LabRat said...

Silly Ahab. Implying that women should never go to bars or tell a man rubbing against them to stop lest they be destroyed by the affronted male isn't sexist. Defending them is.

Ahab said...

Dammit, I knew I was doing it wrong this whole time!

I need to revise the curriculum for that unarmed self-defense class I teach to include "begging" and "stomping away in a huff" now. I guess I could replace the part on "throat punches" and "improvised weapons", right?

Wait, I could save my students even more time and money, and when the ladies show up tell them that the most effective thing they can do to defend themselves is to get married, right?

Breda said...

to realize that the big ol' burrheaded boy at her shoulder had a lot more to do with her barfly buddy backing off than her imagined "deathstare"

Actually my husband didn't know what happened until I told him about it in the parking lot, after we had already left the building.

Feel free to ask him yourself, but good luck getting answer. He can hardly be bothered by the likes of you; you're not even remotely worth his time. He's a man, you see, not a "boy" as you suggest.

And, now, like all petty schoolyard bullies who find themselves in too deep, you try to find someone stronger to hide behind. First Xavier, now Tam. Sad.

Less said...

NEEDS MORE LOLCAT!!

Make the Voices STOP!

Less said...

You owe me a pint, Arab, err Ahab!!

(Only since I've combined Godwin's law with Lolcats...)

Hitler-esque lolcat...

Ahab said...

How is there an entire website dedicated to cats that look like Hitler?

THANK YOU INTERNET.

mike said...

Hon, I have a confession... I'm a burrhead. I know I told you I wasn't, but I didn't think you would marry me if you knew the awful truth.

On nights like this, when the moon is full and the inky cloak of darkness descends on Northeast Ohio, I go forth and commit burrheadery.

I just felt you needed to know.

I’m so ashamed.

atlharp said...

>>Be interesting to hear the thoughts of European women.

Oh, they're allowed to have those?

Under Sharia law.........no. Anyway, I think women are typically deferential in patriarchal societies. Even our own still has the vestiges of a patriarchal society; i think it is unconscious aspect. Regardless, beyond deference or any other type of societal norm or expectation, women are entitled to the same protections even if those expectations remain. Rights overrule norms- This is why Islam operates behind the societal curve.

Cossack in a Kilt said...

Wow. All that, over a misquote from Gen. Mattis (USMC)? When getting ready to roll over the LOD (line of departure) with 1MarDiv into Iraq, Gen. Mattis issued an all hands letter (reproduced below) and made comments along the lines of "Be polite, be professional, and have a plan to kill everyone in sight." (My memory says it could have been, "and be prepared to kill everyone in sight.")

Gen. Mattis is also known for broad use of the phrase (in referring to the Marines) "no better friend, no worse enemy."

Admittedly, I personally would have preferred that the link in Breda's original post had been to Gen. Mattis' original phrase . . . purely as a matter of attribution, well, and some clarification.

If you put the totality of Gen. Mattis' comments listed above under consideration, I cannot find anything objectionable, or potentially incurring of civil liability.

Roughly paraphrased, my interpretation of the remarks is this: If I do not know you---KNOW YOU---then you are a potential threat, and I will treat with you courteously and professionally, but at such time as you aggress against me, you will be met with immediate and overwhelming responsive force.

Male, female, old, young, firm or infirm, I don't see the problem with anyone adopting that philosophy.

Here is a link to a wiki repro of Gen. Mattis' LOD letter: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/Genmattisltr.jpg

It is my personal view that each element of the "be polite, be professional, and be prepared" forms a leg on the tripod of self-reliance: all are equally important, and self-reinforcing.

Crikey, am I the first person to make the Mattis connection?

DaveP. said...

"burrheadery"... snork. Thanks for the coffee-spraying moment.

Billy Beck said...

"So many unconscious behaviors,..."

Almost everybody has them. For a long time, I have watched men shake hands. They'll walk up to each other like puppies, except they're not wagging their tails: they have that fin stuck out there for anyone to grab it.

I don't do that. If I'm going to shake a man's hand, I wait until I've looked him in the eye, at the very least in order to see if he can do the same to me.

loki said...

Cossack, thanks for the source of the Mattis quote. I've been hearing it for years, but without attribution.

Cossack in a Kilt said...

Happy to oblige, loki!

ravenshrike said...

Cossack, while Mattis may have said it then, I know I've heard/read it or something extremely close to it before 2003.

Mark said...

Yurpeen wimmin in my experience are less polite than Merkin wimmin. Sample responses:

"Get the fuck out of my way"
"Fuck do you want?"
"Fuck off"

So if nothing else, knowing that they're empowered to levy lethal force makes American women much more polite. I'm all for that.