Friday, February 20, 2009

More on unbreakable guns...

A little birdie reporting back from a Thunder Ranch carbine course tells me that the two guys there shooting Marlin 1894's in .357 managed to break three guns in some fashion or another between the two of them.

This is why the two guys had brought four identical carbines to class between them; this wasn't their first rodeo. Your classmates will really appreciate it if you don't hold up the whole class by playing gun mechanic and can just yank out a second gun and drive on.

Like Uncle Clint says: Two is one and one is none.

15 comments:

Joat said...

Sound more like two is none and four is one.

Caleb said...

High round count training courses - where "bring enough gun" takes on a whole new meaning.

JimB said...

I wonder just how did they break??
Mechanical malfunction or did they break the stock..

Tam said...

IIRC, one gun had a lifter issue, another broke the pin that retains the forearm, and I can't remember the other. I think it was something minor...

José Giganté said...

I have a Marlin, its the most reliable levergun you can buy. That said, there's no way in hell I'd show up for a serious carbine course with one and expect it to do anything but break. Hell, I see leverguns break all the time at Cowboy Action matches and we're shooting like 60-80 rounds through them. I shutter to think of all the things that would work loose or break on one of these guns.

Now as for taking a Marlin on a long walk, I don't know that there's a rifle I'd rather have.

PS, on the Marlin, if you don't round the cam on the lever, it'll put a notch in the lifter allowing just enough slack to allow a second round to start and jam her up tight.

José Giganté said...

Make that "shudder"...

Tam said...

"PS, on the Marlin, if you don't round the cam on the lever, it'll put a notch in the lifter allowing just enough slack to allow a second round to start and jam her up tight."

Huh. Y'know, I did not know that. It explains what happened to my sooper-dooper awesome customized hawg gun back in '95, though.

Noah D said...

José sez:

I have a Marlin, its the most reliable levergun you can buy. That said, there's no way in hell I'd show up for a serious carbine course with one and expect it to do anything but break. Hell, I see leverguns break all the time at Cowboy Action matches and we're shooting like 60-80 rounds through them. I shutter to think of all the things that would work loose or break on one of these guns.

Now as for taking a Marlin on a long walk, I don't know that there's a rifle I'd rather have.


1) Those two paragraphs seem contradictory - but maybe I'm missing or assuming something?

2) 60-80 rounds and they break? Seriously? What are they doing, that causes that?

3) An AR is that much more reliable than a levergun?

Caveat: I am very levergun-ignorant. But I've been thinking about one...

tanksoldier said...

The lever guns are for the most part old technology. Nobody in 1890 went out and shot 1000 rounds thru their rifle in 4 days.

The major brands are reliable when used as intended and within the designers' expected parameters.

Anonymous said...

1. I broke #1 when shooting at 100 (firing pin).

2. My friend broke both of his on day 2 (lifter and then firing pin). #2 broke during last exercise (The Wall at Shootrite).

3. I broke off the barrel band pin of my back up the second day and turned my Marlin 1894 into a "slide action". :-) The weapon still fired and cycled.

Yes, ARs are far more reliable than lever guns. This is not my first rodeo with lever guns and they have gone TU at other classes.

No lever guns are not "rugged" and reliable or any of the other nonsense that is posted on the gun nut forums. Subject a lever gun (or most commerical firearms, with the exception of the 870 [which I have broken in classes]) to serious training and it will be mush very shortly.

Remember, big difference between fondling gun in gun room and walking around with it and using it for serious social purposes (a fight).

We use lever guns as this is what my Chicago-restricted friend is using. Therefore, I use it as well.

Shootin' Buddy

ray said...

Enlightening

Noah D said...

Tanksoldier, SB - thanks for the heads-up(s).

I had considered (am considering) an 1894C and a pair of Model 65s as the 'AWB backup plan', and to shrink down the ammo types used to just .357/.38, in the interest of simplifying reloading (which I don't do any of at the moment). But I really can only afford the 4 essentials - carbine, shotgun, 2 pistols - so the current ones would go to pay for those.

Maybe I'll stick with the AR and the 1911s for right now...

Buffboy said...

I'm something of a fanatic about leverguns but I know their limitations in stock configuration. Most were designed before the 20th century and they weren't designed for that kind of speed. If you try to use any mechanically operated rifle, including bolt actions, to keep up with semi auto battle rifles, you are likely to break things.

I'm curious as to whether the 4 guns in question were stock or modified. I have an 1894C Marlin that's been worked on by a gentleman that has been modifying guns for CASS and it's been stone axe reliable after 1000s of rounds. I have a 1892 replica that was worked on by the same gentleman that is the same. That doesn't mean either won't break down tomorrow but then the same could be said about my AR(they break too) though the AR is less likely(I hope).

Tam said...

They've all been pretty seriously tuned up.

Ed Foster said...

Hey Noah D., Rheinlander Arms is coming out with a tuned up .45 ACP conversion for the 98 Mauser and the Lee-Enfield sometime in the next 2-3 months.

I'm building one on the Lee-Enfield because they work better than the 98 with pistol cartridges (no locking lug recesses to hop over). Also, sporterized/mangled Enfields are a dime a dozen. Not shabby for what, a buck and a half?

With a 225 gr/950 fps load of Bullseye powder in a carbine length barrel, there just isn't any noise, and you'll get factory ballistics in a 1911 with the same load. Also a cartridge that is ideal for cast bullets, and 1,400 shots per pound of powder.