Monday, April 04, 2011

A modest proposal:

Looking at QC issues with certain brands of pistol, and the needs and expectations of their buyers, I think that you could drive a half-dozen gun companies to the brink of bankruptcy if you sold a sealed, non-reloadable, disposable, 10-shot pistol with an instruction comic book in a blister pack for $29.99.

Discuss.

105 comments:

chiefjaybob said...

Isn't that what Hi Point is doing....?

JD said...

"In case of emergency, break blister pack (there would have to be a tool included to facilitate the opening of said blister pack), fire till empty, throw empty gun at assailant, run to safety, wait for Police."


I like it...

Retardo said...

Better put rails on it.

Tam said...

chiefjaybob,

Hi Point would be the first one to feel the pain.

RobertM said...

I'm willing to invest in this endeavor.

Tam said...

For $45.99, the SE model would have a laser and an LED light.

Robb Allen said...

Sadly, it probably wouldn't be on the Massachusetts approved roster and couldn't be sold in California due to the plastic packaging.

ExurbanKevin said...

Hmmn, I wonder if the plans and specs for the Liberator are in the public domain. That would save on some initial development costs...

North said...

Wouldn't this work better for a revolver?

Peter said...

Tam, only if the packaging is recycled post-consumer TP and the weapon itself (or at least its frame) is made from recycled shopping bags (preferably from Wal-Mart). For added consumer appeal, the metal parts could be made from melted-down recycled Priuses (Pri-ii?).

As for the ammunition, it should be rubber, of course, to sting but not inflict permanent harm. Bad for the image, you know.

I predict steady sales to the Brady Bunch, if no-one else!

North said...

Will a rain forest get saved and a panda bear get hugged?

bluesun said...

I'd buy it. I could make all sorts of entertaining videos on Youtube with something like that...

Gregg said...

This idea is just what MetalStorm needs. Heck, with this made by MetalStorm you could get around any magazine restrictions.

Just sayin'

bgeek said...

Only if it comes with a brittle stick of gum that'll crack a tooth.

global village idiot said...

I'd buy ten, leave 'em in the original blister pack, wait until they're discontinued a year later, then clean up on ebay.

And wasn't that the business model for the Gyrojet?

gvi

Pointman said...

Some idiot would figure out how to hack into it, reload it so many times they blow off a digit in the ensuing KABOOM then proceed to sue everyone involved.

I know, I'm very optimistic about my fellow man /sarcasm

Tam said...

I'm thinking a proprietary rimfire cartridge, fairly low-pressure, about a .41 caliber at modest velocities...

Owen said...

I've proposed this very thing at former places of employment, and all I got was glassy stares.

We kicked our butts to make an uber-reliable, super durable pistol, that most of our customers will shoot 50 rounds out of, and the vast majority of which will never come close to tapping its capabilities or even try.

Its kinda depressing sometimes.

Anonymous said...

You could have air droped a few thousand of them into Northern Africa and made a bundle in the last few weeks.

I do think you could market them to the Survival Light crowd for a Liberator like roll.

Gerry

Tam said...

Pointman,

"...then proceed to sue everyone involved."

Get someone from the software industry to write up your EULA, so that the very act of opening the blister pack equals signing a hold harmless. :D

Will said...

That ammo would up the market appeal of the original Deringers, I think. Hey, a two-fer!

North said...

"I'm thinking a proprietary rimfire cartridge, fairly low-pressure, about a .41 caliber at modest velocities..."

.41 Swiss Rimfire? Ulterior motive, much?

:-P

Tam said...

No, something more like a smokeless equivalent of the old .41 Remington derringer.

You want modest recoil and a decent-sized bullet to make up for the low velocity. Rimfire and maybe a proprietary bullet size so folks don't try and get cute and reload the thing.

Straight blowback, Zamak slide...

John Stephens said...

This would be a good first product for a new firearms manufacturer, assuming any of those state exemption laws survive the judicial process.

North said...

Tam: Light teasing. But if I ever stumble upon any .41 swiss, they are yours.

Jake (formerly Riposte3) said...

Gregg beat me to it. This idea is practically tailor made for Metalstorm. It would also be a great "Liberator" type package for anywhere something like that might be needed.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like something from a William Gibson novel, perhaps available in a vending machine in the darker corners of a Japanese love hotel...

Matt
St Paul

Gunmart said...

I think it should be an 11 shot pistol just to piss off the Brady Bunch and all those other loons!

Bubblehead Les. said...

Could you get it in Pink? After all, you'd have to have SOMETHING for all the Cletii to sell to the First Time Lady Gun Buyers, right?

theirritablearchitect said...

Robb A,

In Kalifornistan, the plastic frame and packaging would need the warning label about compounds and such being shown by said state to be known carcinogens.

NO, WAIT!

The plastic would have to be PBA-free, by law of course, with big, bold markings declaring it so, or it'd be made from soy, or potato-based biodegradable plastics, perfect for the crunchy, granola-eating ecofascists so prevalent out that way.

Tam said...

We'd hold cost down by just not even attempting certification for CA, MA, NY, and MD.

The fired case requirement adds a couple bucks to the cost of the gun and would be untenable at our price point, anyway. I probably wouldn't bother with NJ, either.

og said...

You'd have to put sights on the sides of the slide.

You could make stamped steel stronger and cheaper than Zamak.

Hoozyrdady said...

The concept tickled the back of my brain... Oh, yeah - William C. Dietz had "Glock Disposables" in his book -"Bodyguard".

"An ugly looking block of metal and plastic... .9mm, 25 round magazine, over-sized safety, laser-sight, can fire 3 magazine's (75 rounds)before deactivating itself..."

Put me down for 3 of 'em!

Tam said...

Og,

"You'd have to put sights on the sides of the slide."

Not my target market, really.

This is for those folks who purchase a gun-shaped lucky rabbit's foot for purse, pocket, or sock drawer (you know, the ones who are dismayed because the cheap bullets don't come in boxes smaller than 50) and it should be plenty adequate for the purpose.

I'd take two-thirds of Hi-Point's business, half of Charter Arms, and a third of Taurus's, right off the bat.

og said...

Actually, if you think about it, with modern powder and tech you could make a superposed load, with ten shots stacked on top of one another, each set off electrically. Accuracy was never in question anyway, and it would be butt-simple to make. You could compress the powder into shaped briquettes and just seat to depth at the electrode locations. The barrel could be made out of a thin piece of steel with a stamped frame welded on and a single battery and capacitor inside to spark and light the charges, a tiny circuit to stage the next charge.

og said...

"Not my target market, really."

probably very true, the bangers want the big glittery stuff like deagles, (that is, until they shoot them, then they come back after 380's, as is evidenced by the number of traded in deagles at my local shops)

Fodder4Thought said...

@Tam:

Why even bother with a fired shell casing? If the whole thing is disposable, go with caseless. Or a pre-loaded cylinder in your disposable revolver. No need to have an actual cartridge, per se, since no one would ever be handling it.

Identification marks can be put on the bullets themselves, if desired.

The metalstorm idea is good, but introduces a shelf life limitation to the gun, since the system is fired electrically and batteries don't last forever.

Maybe you could make it like those 'shake lights' one gets from the discount bin, or give it a charging crank so you have to wind it up like an old airplane before you can shoot it.

The crank can make the same noise as a rape whistle.

Tam said...

Og,

"Actually, if you think about it, with modern powder and tech you could make a superposed load, with ten shots stacked on top of one another, each set off electrically."

Heh.

We were just talking about Metalstorm up-thread. :)

Bubblehead Les. said...

Hmm. Make it in Rare Dark Earth, put on a number like the T.A.M. 2011 (Tactical, Accessory, Military) and with a price point of $1,500 you could sell about 400,000 to Big Army as an EPDW to be issued to Hummvee Drivers, Tankers, Apache pilots, et.al.

Then the Mall Ninjas will want one, but you only release them 3-5 at a time to all the Gun Stores at a MSRP of $2,700....

Og, Fire Up the Blow Mold Machine, I sense Big Bucks heading to Indy!

North said...

Revolver shape (but not revolving) 1 center barrel, 6 around the center. Not 7 barrels, but 7 holes machined in 1 chunk of steel. Inexpensive micro circuit to fire electronically. No moving parts except 'trigger' over microswitch. Battery in hollow handle.

og said...

Ah, sorry, missed that.

Valid idea, though. The problem with superposed muzzleloaders was the variable quality of the components- if you were careful you could make a hella superposed pistol. I would even say make it a five shot. Stamped sides, tube barrel, battery, capacitor, little circuit, some plastic, I'd say you could mfr for about $9 (aside from tooling)

Tango Juliet said...

Sometimes, just sometimes, I think you're a bit of a cynic Tam.

:)

Anonymous said...

Using og's idea (metalstorm?) to stack propellent and shot/bullet. Do ignition using using primers on side holes ala blackpowder rifles so you don't have any shelf life issues. Trigger has N stages. Just keep pulling it back over a couple inch pull or ratchet that pulls a hammer down the side of the barrel and fires the primers.

Bullets can be wadecutter in shape so stacking and sealing should be easy. Don't even rifle the barrel unless that gets us to legalities. Have a shot shell version, or have a version that staggers slug/shot.

Have multiple external looks. Some should look like traditional guns some should be shaped for elderly arthritic hands. Shape is only limited to the longish barrels since we aren't building a separate magazine. Sell some as just the barrel assembly and a remote pull string trigger so that they can be mounted and fired from walkers, wheel chairs, bicycles, and car roofs, and those robotic turret things you can get from thinkgeek.

North said...

The barrel is your cartridge - bullet lightly glued in place. Powder added. Electric primer sealed behind that. Center hole, 6 around it. No moving parts.

Fodder4Thought said...

Hell, if simple is the goal, think less 'gun' and more 'death wand.' This sort of thing woild never be meant for greater than contact distances, and the tube shape should be easy for anyone to hold (a good rubber sleeve could improve it, too).

Tube with stacked bullets/powder/electronic ignitor, battery beneath it, ignition circuitry between (with necessary protective padding, of course), and a firing stud on the outside.

The safety would be taking it out of the packaging.

North said...

I can't see that firing a front bullet wouldn't apply the same force to the stack of bullets behind it.

og said...

The electric charge could be a gas grill igniter. Remember the one Evil Knieval used to sell as pain relief? Think it was called "The Stimulator". Which was my film name some time ago.

Sorry, outloud again? Sorry.

WV: Oingooxi. The town in Siam where the new disposa-death would be made.

Lergnom said...

Do piezo strikers have limited lifespans? And would one of them be able to reliably set off a charge?

og said...

"I can't see that firing a front bullet wouldn't apply the same force to the stack of bullets behind it."

It was an issue with the early blackpowder models. There have been plenty of refinements in tech since then.

og said...

Lergnom: They certainly have enough life to ignite a couple dozen powder charges.

North said...

Stacked bullets: One fail and you are done.

Anonymous said...

Daemon, by Daniel Suarez - or Cryptonomicon, by Neal Stephenson.

Someone needs to publish desktop CNC plans for something like this. THERE'S your liberator 2011.

Jake (formerly Riposte3) said...

The metalstorm idea is good, but introduces a shelf life limitation to the gun, since the system is fired electrically and batteries don't last forever.

That's not a bug, that's a feature! :P

Seriously, though, if you set it up so that the battery's not actually connected until the first time you pull the trigger, and you pick the right battery, you're talking about a shelf-life of 2-3 years at minimum. With the target market, there's a decent chance that they may not even remember where they put it, at that point.

Or, you could market cheap replacement batteries, with a smoke-detector type "chirp" when the current battery needs replacing.

I can't see that firing a front bullet wouldn't apply the same force to the stack of bullets behind it.

It does, but it also works. Metalstorm is building and demo firing large-scale units to try and sell to the military already - there's plenty of footage floating around the interwebs.

In fact, IIRC, one of their designs (which they may or may not have actually built) is for a pistol where you reload by changing the barrel.

og said...

"Stacked bullets: One fail and you are done."

Actually, with modern QC being what it is, the liklihood that you will have a misfire in something like this is orders of magnitude smaller than the liklihood of misloading a magazine, or even having the magazine jam.

Jake (formerly Riposte3) said...

Actually, with modern QC being what it is, the liklihood that you will have a misfire in something like this is orders of magnitude smaller than the liklihood of misloading a magazine, or even having the magazine jam.

Also, I bet it's possible to design the system to be robust enough that a single misfire can be safely pushed out of the barrel by the following charge. You might not get enough velocity to be effective beyond contact ranges, but it would clear the barrel for follow-up shots.

og said...

Indeed, jake. The stacked charge could consist of a conical bullet with a flat nose, and then a charge which filled the void left by the cone, and the next bullet could seat directly on the bullet below. So all the bullets would be touching one another, and the charges would be in he area where the conical nose isn't.

Bubblehead Les. said...

Just got a call from Bubba Cletus, Junior. He needs 50 of the T.A.M. 2011 for the Gunshow this weekend. And the BATFEIEIO needs 500 to be sent to Tijuana ASAP.

Ian Argent said...

As long as the magazine size is 15 or less, you're good in NJ. With an integral magazine you can break the 50 oz limit, even.

With one of the pepperbox designs you don't have to worry about NJ'S AWB at all, it only applies to semi-autos.

Anonymous said...

On missiles we have chemical batteries, which store nicely, but only put out power after the switch happens.

Hook the battery start switch up to the blister pack, so opening the package starts the (first) battery. Power would be available for a few hours after that, so plenty of time for the po-po to arive before your (first) battery runs down. Heck, given them a second or replacement battery.

Anonymous said...

On your way to air dropping a bunch in northern Africa, you could drop a few hundred thousand in MD. When we get finished, we'll be more like Arizona than Arizona.

Anonymous said...

A primary (non-rechargeable) lithium battery has a shelf life of 10+ years. Much to be said for no moving parts.

Single use could make a ceramic barrel possible.

Laser diodes can run less than $1 each in volume. A laser sight can help a lot.

If there is no breach, is this a muzzle loader that you can sell by mail order?

pax said...

I'm thinking a proprietary rimfire cartridge, fairly low-pressure, about a .41 caliber at modest velocities...

Yes! Especially if the packaging touts the round as a super-powerful manstopper, and you also give the gun itself some cutesy-tactical name like, oh, I dunno... "The Jury" or "The Executioner" or somesuch.

perlhaqr said...

So, I know it ruins the whole "no reloading" thing, but, what if the metalstorm tube in the "slide" portion of the gun were detachable from the "grip and trigger" part of the gun, so you fire your 10 shots, push the eject button, and slide on a whole new pre-loaded upper.

perlhaqr said...

Dang, no, that won't work. Gives it more than one control, meaning people will release the ammo instead of pulling the trigger.

perlhaqr said...

Tam: You thinking a bullet weight around 135 gr or so?

Hunh, if they're hollowpoints, you can pack the metalstorm charge down in the cavity, too.

Keads said...

Sorry Tam- someone already has most of that market covered. *COUGH Kel-Tec COUGH*

Anonymous said...

Sounds like a poor man's stinger missile.

Vaarok said...

Why all this talk of batteries? The RPG uses the trigger pull to generate all the ignitor current necessary through a solenoid, I don't see why it won't work here.

Anonymous said...

I would set it up with a trigger, a grip safety, and a thumb safety, and so that all must be held down in order for it to fire. Let go of the thump safety, and it would spring up to safe. Let go of the grip safety, and it would spring out to safe. Of course all three motions are unlikely to happen at once unless by volition.

I guess that people who were missing a digit could pin one or another down.

Ian Argent said...

I have to wonder at this point, could you make a chamical bullet projector where there is no frame, and if so, what's the "serial number part"? Or does the BATFE just pre-emptively jug you on general principles.

Sport Pilot said...

This is not as farfetched an idea as it would seem, an all plastic revolver loaded with soft lead or sintered metal projectiles over a non reloadable black powder or like substitute ignited by an electric current generated by a dynamo contained in the grip frame and powered by a long double action pull. You end up with a low pressure pointed of contact non reloadable revolver, most likely in a .31 or .32 caliber as Tam has already mentioned
In fact such a firearm could even be manufactured with a rifled barrel, a non removable serial number insert and all of the warning labels, safety locks and such any product liability attorney could ever envision. Crap, if I had the independent means to do it I’d run with this idea. In fact I wonder if it was a black powder etc handgun would it even be covered by any firearms laws, regulations or ordinances.

John said...

Man, if they have kittens whenever somebody mentions 'plastic guns' and 'Saturday night specials', 'disposable pistol' would have to give the Brady folks an aneurysm. Expect to have to declared an abomination unto God and man that such a thing could be manufactured and sold! legally! in this great country!

Also, I think you might want some sort of shoot-through cap on the barrel to keep water, etc out of the action, such as it is.

North said...

Wish I could think of my friend's quotes for things designed by committee. Something about a clusterf abomination.

Retardo said...

For a long-lasting power source for electrical ignition, use an RTG. Like all Soviet technology, it's not user-friendly, but it'll keep working for 900 years. Actually the advantage there is you don't even need the rest of the gun. It simplifies your retirement planning, too.

Tam, by rails I meant that a gun that cheap is an ideal entry-level customization platform, a relatively inert substrate for bolting on all manner of lights, sights, VTEC stickers, and an acid green fiberglass air dam.

In keeping with the Taurus theme, you could call it The Parolee, and also sell The Parolee's Baby Mama with a pink frame.

docjim505 said...

og - Stamped sides, tube barrel, battery, capacitor, little circuit, some plastic, I'd say you could mfr for about $9 (aside from tooling)

Shoot, that's less than the cost of a box of "personal defense" JHP's.

I really think that this product would be a winner, especially among the "I think guns are icky but I guess I need one in case somebody breaks into the house" crowd. It might also sell well as part of a prepackaged survival kit (BOB) with ration bars, bagged water, whistle, etc.

I wonder how much it would cost to start a company to manufacture such a thing?

Anonymous @ 3:32 PM, April 04, 2011 - Have multiple external looks. Some should look like traditional guns some should be shaped for elderly arthritic hands. Shape is only limited to the longish barrels since we aren't building a separate magazine...

Great idea. Because the frame would likely be molded plastic, it should be cheap and easy to make a variety of grip sizes and shapes. It could even be offered in different colors: dark earth or coyote for the mall ninjas; pink for the little ladies (ducks head); gold and silver two-tone for the bangers; etc. The fact that the trigger would be nothing more than an electric switch would eliminate problems with a stiff DA trigger, too.

How about an integral holster, where the act of drawing would arm the firing mechanism? I suppose that one could even add an audible alarm, not only to dissuade a would-be attacker and summon help, but also to let a parent know that Junior decided to go playing with what he found in the sock drawer.

Another suggestion: some sort of timer that would render the gun non-operational at some fixed time after arming, making it more of an "emergency only" gun.

Oh, the possibilities are endless!

Drang said...

Tam, why didn't you post this last Friday...?

WV: ingibe. Yep

docjim505 said...

What am I thinking??? Instead of a single large, low-velocity bullet, the Disposogun 2000 should fire the equivalent of .410 shotshells!

(ducks and runs)

Living in Babylon said...

Someone never played cyberpunk 2020-disposable, electrically fired polymer pistols in designer colors were sold all over the place.

Anonymous said...

Dammit! I've been working on such a concept for 3 years. It's not such a bad idea, but some would view it as being incredibly irresponsible, and might actually drive efforts to enact some sort of registration. Then again, selling it from a street corner vending machine probably wouldn't be a good idea.

Anonymous said...

I can see something like this, and nobody would like it, both pro and anti gun:

Four barrels, injection molded, single piece, molded in electrical conductors. Trigger guard slides back and snaps in place with trigger finger to connect conductors and arm the gun. Electrical trigger. Powder and frangible slug sealed into barrels, each barrel good for only one shot. Maybe half a dozen plastic pieces, plus ammunition.

On surface mount circuit card that slides and snaps into slot under barrels, lithium battery, laser diode for targeting, GPS chip and SMS transmitter, solid state camera and microphone. GPS chipsets are available in bulk for only a few dollars now, as are keychain video recorders. $29.95 in clamshell package at Quick-E-Mart and your local liquor store.

Waterproof and harmless until you pull back on sliding trigger guard. Arms gun, turns on laser, sends SMS message to 911 with GPS position. Recorder starts, with video and audio. If fired, taggents mark shooter. After 1 hour, it permanently inerts itself.

The biggest problem would be the bozos who will insist that every gun be like this. But the restrictions and limitations might be worth it, if it were available easily, instantly, cheaply, and anonymously.

I think it was William Gibson who has something very much like this in one of his novels.

Ed Foster said...

North and Tam: The CIA used to make a disposable .32acp out of paper mache reenforced with fiberglass strands. It was water soluable after you took a key or penknife to the varnished exterior, leaving nothing but a rusty sashweight and a nondescript spring.

Nothing much for accuracy, as the smoothbore barrel eroded more with each shot, but at the distances planned for it's use I don't think it mattered much.

Lets see, if we substituted ceramic for the material in the slamfire bolt, and used a pneumatic cylinder made from plastic to cycle the bolt, some of those plastic cases Speer used to sell for their primer activated plastic bullet load, and plastic coated ceramic bullets, then had it carried through the airport clanger by a female companion in burka.....

Also, I really want somebody to bring back the .41 Swiss rimfire cartridge. A Ruger .44 Mag kind of carbine with a ballistically better 330 grain bullet at 1900 fps, cheap ammo, and a simple delayed blowback action.

Not bleeding likely, but a really handy $300 deer rifle so profitable it might bring WallyWorld back into the gun business.

Pardon me, I lost my Ritalin.

Ed Foster said...

Sorry about the segue there. Actually, if I'm using ceramic bullets I could just put the powder charge and primer inside the projo, a la Volcanic pistol, and let the hollowbase bullets badminton birdie their way to the target.

The bolt wraps around the back of the barrel like an Uzi/Skorpion, sealing the magazine from flashover created by the fired caseless cartridge. All made in metric dimensions with ceramic purchased in France.

It just gets better and better.

Swear to God, VW is jacal.

Matthew said...

Would rifling the projectile help with keeping costs down (smoothbore barrel) and stability?

I don't know the velocity requirements involved.

Roberta X said...

Piezoelecytric ignition is the way to go, no shelf-life issues.

It's just a pity you couldn't make any money selling them out of armored vending machines in civilian-disarmament zones, machines with "THE RIGHT TO OWN WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE" blazoned across the front.

It's like for the Liberator to return.

Ian Argent said...

Black powder would likely not be usable - the stuff doesn't store well (being both hygroscopic and prone to disassociating - when stored in the magazines you had a schedule of rotation of the barrels containing the stuff). Best to use smokeless powder. Put a membrane over the barrel and seal the rest of it. Use caseless - you don't care about the heat-sink effect of tossing the brass overboard. As long as it doesn't melt before the user can let go, you're good.

Anonymous said...

Great idea.

The ChiCaps will have knockoffs online by sundown at $8.88.

AT

North said...

Roberta: The piezoelectric 'ignition' is a valid source for firing power. But if (IF) you need to rely on a small microcontroller to perform any sequencing then given today's pico current draw in standby, a single AA-class battery or equivalent in Lithium would be fine. The current draw of an idle microcontroller is near the shelf leakage of a battery anyway. The micro only 'wakes up' for the few milliseconds after fire.

Fodder4Thought said...

What I'm picturing is as follows.

Initially a straight walled tube:

------------------------------
| / |
| / |
------------------------------


The portion to the left of the slashes contains the barrel, projectiles, powder, ignition circuitry and whatever lighting/recording/etc stuff one wants, in addition to whatever stupid bullet-tracking methods one wants.

The portion to the right of the slashes contains the power source, the charging circuitry, the trigger, etc.

The slashes themselves represent a swivel point. Bear with me, please, because:

A) It's hard to describe, and
B) I'm not very smart.

Rotating the right-most portion of the tube will change the straight-walled tube to this:

--------------------
| \
| \
----------------\ \
\ \
\ \
\ \
\ \
------

I apologize for the cut-rate ASCII art.

Rotating the cylinder from configuration 1 to configuration 2 would 'arm' the weapon (and start whatever attendant processes one wishes, whether recording, lasing, or whatever), making it ready to fire whenever the trigger mechanism is activated. Since the gun is fired electronically, there's no real reason for a traditional trigger - a button will do just fine, and electrical switches are much easier to hide than mechanical ones.

As to power, if the gun is to do nothing else but shoot (God forbid), then a piezoelectric trigger is probably fine, but it can't be so stiff that the elderly/infirm have trouble actuating it. Using a small dynamo would probably work, but I expect is too expensive to really be viable for this application.

If the gun is to do anything else (like have a laser, a light, recording capabilities, RF transmitting abilities, etc) then a more traditional power source is necessary. For those who crave true long-term storage capability, perhaps a beta-voltaic cell?

As an aside, I think that if one wants to add recording functionality, the best way to go is similar to what some police officers are using now. The camera is constantly recording to a buffer but not permanent storage, and when the officer wants to start recording something, he presses the button and the past 30 seconds are transferred from the buffer to permanent storage and the camera records as normal from that point on.

Fodder4Thought said...

@Me:

Damnation. I don't know why, but the amazingly detailed ASCII art I spent many hours on and can never reproduce didn't come through properly.

It was beautiful enough to make grown men weep, trust me.

The slashes were about 3/4 the way down the tube, and when rotated the rightmost section swung down to form a more traditional gun shape.

WV - dangst: When you're hormonal and bummed, but also kind of pissed at something.

Jim said...

Remember the four-barreled COP pistol?

It was intended as a backup arm for duty officers, but had such an abysmal trigger, horrid quality and reliablity, and absolutely non-existant customer support.

Not to mention it's virtually unconcealable bulk and heft.

Otherwise, it's a pretty damn good physical format for your concept.

Maybe make a seven barreled pattern "six around one", all as "fire once" integrated chambers and bores.

Rifling need not be precise. Simple thin steel rolled over a rifled mandrel, then the lot of them cast into polymer. Bet it'd be strong enough for one shot each.

Celebrity endorsements? The mind boggles at the possibilities!


Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Anonymous said...

.41 rimfire? No, RF has too many feeding problems. It's time, Tam, for the return of the .35 S&W!

Antibubba

Kristopher said...

Plastic, single shot, and non-reloadable, folded up like a small leatherman knife.

You unfold it into a 90 degree angled pistol shape to fire it ( this is needed to avoid getting slapped with an AOW tag ).

John B said...

Let me know when you have it ready for prime time. I'll show everyone how to run a vending route!

ToddG said...

SIG's current CEO proposed this very thing (a single use, single-mag super cheap pistol) within the first months of his stewardship.

Geodkyt said...

DAO Revolver, bottom cylinder fires.

No cylinder release.

Block the front so the only place the bullet doesn't have a structure in front of it is the barrel.

Casless rounds, with the propellant in a squared format, so even if you cut away the forward cylinder block, you can't reload easily.

Anyone who could reload it could make a SMG more easily.

Tam said...

ToddG,

"SIG's current CEO proposed this very thing (a single use, single-mag super cheap pistol) within the first months of his stewardship."

Even a blind pig sometimes finds an acorn. ;)

Anonymous said...

Hu. I'd be interested in five or so. Three to shoot, one for each car.

One has to touch their handgun too much to use a "car holster". From an IWB at 3:30 or 4:00, it's a bit slow to present while buckled in.

But one of these attached some place convenient, and it's the perfect solution for a gun to use while inside the car.

Anonymous said...

I believe John Barnes proposed something much like this in his novel "Mother of Storms."

IIRC, Barnes called his version the "Self-Defender," which in the novel was sold at just about any American convienence store. It fired a small-caliber, high velocity round, sent a radio signal to the nearest police station at the moment it was fired and stained the shooter's hand with a non-soluble dye at the same time, limiting the Self-Defender's utility as a crime weapon.

Otherwise, it was a lot like Tam's proposed gun.

--Wes S.

perlhaqr said...

Fodder4Thought: HTML is whitespace insensitive.

You needed a 'pre' tag, which probably isn't available here, or to replace every space with an & nbsp ; (no spaces.) :)

Jake (formerly Riposte3) said...

On the battery issue:

First, sell the gun in a kydex holster, with interchangeable attachments for IWB or OWB carry.

You know how toys and some other gizmos will have a strip of plastic between the battery and the contacts, so that you pull the strip out through a slot in the battery cover before you can use it? Use the same setup with the gun's battery, and attach the strip to the holster.

When you draw the gun from the holster, the strip stays with the holster and that allows the battery to connect. This also starts an audio and video recorder (with a wide angle lens aligned with the barrel) and turns on the integral laser sight.

The recording can only be retrieved by the manufacturer. A copy is provided to both the police and the owner (or his defense attorney), to prevent any "faulty" video excuses by the police. The manufacturer also keeps a copy on file as a neutral party in the case, since their only interest is that the recorder worked and not what it shows.

GPS, an automatic 911 caller, and indelible dye can be offered as options.

North said...

"You know how toys and some other gizmos will have a strip of plastic between the battery and the contacts, so that you pull the strip out through a slot in the battery cover before you can use it?"

An unused battery setting on a shelf will self-discharge - even when connected to nothing.

A properly designed circuit will not need this strip of plastic - there would be nothing connected to the battery that would draw power anyway.

Battery life in this device would be equal to shelf life of the battery.

sobriant74 said...

OK, if everyone here puts in $100 we could have a patent drawn up and a prototype built in 30 days.

Jake (formerly Riposte3) said...

North: I'll admit the idea is less to preserve the battery life than it is to make a simple and easy "on" switch that the owner wouldn't need to think about or train with - the gun would automatically arm itself and activate all features when drawn, with no user controls needed beyond the trigger. Once it's been drawn, it will need to be replaced - since it's marketed as a single use item that fits the idea as well. Physically blocking the battery connection this way would also work as a hedge against design or manufacturing defects that may cause an unintended draw on the battery before it's used.

An alternative would be a tab in the holster that fits into a slot on the gun and actuates a switch to have the same effect. This would also allow it to be disarmed when the owner re-holsters it, too. Place it right, and you can avoid "trigger on finger while reholstering" NDs, too - which also fits with the gun's purpose as a tool for the untrained.

Fodder4Thought said...

@perlhaqr:

Thanks! It's been ages since Iast dicked around with HTML to any non-trivial degree.

As to the switch, you could always use a reed switch or a hall switch and put a magnet in the holster. It would be easy to mould, and is probably cheaper than machining a switch.

It's unlikely to interfere with intended operation, too, unless you're trying to defend yourself from a medieval knight in a thunderstorm, in which case yoi've probably already got a sword on you.

The Freeholder said...

Would you sell it at the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Convenience Market? You know, on a rack next to the register, alongside the lottery tickets?

Or perhaps the condoms? "Don't forget your protection!" LOL