Back in my hometown of Atlanta is the main campus of Georgia Tech University, a fine engineering school. And when I say it is "in Atlanta", I mean that it's IN Atlanta; the school's campus butts right up against some of the roughest neighborhoods in town.
I'd always considered it somewhat miraculous that the school's grounds seemed a relatively safe haven in the middle of an area that featured much more prominently in the crime blotter than in the Arts & Living section.
Apparently whatever magic force field there was has started to weaken, and the goblins are getting in amongst the little lambkins with some frequency now. And, despite Georgia having fairly sane CCW laws, the campus is officially gun-free. (Unless you're bringing the gun to commit a crime, that is...)
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Girl from Ipanema? (This is how you can tell that I am middle-aged.)
A campus is only gun-free to law abiding folks, if they choose to obey laws that require them to be sacrifices to irrationality and political hypocrisy.
CCW means 'concealed',whether or not 'der kompotent authorities' approve.
If one saves one's life due to one's possession of a firearm,and perhaps it's use, then the disapproval of a University is a secondary issue.
Still and all, the Left's willingness to commit human sacrifice upon the citizens at large, and these students specifically, certainly highlights the underlying assumptions of Left-wing Rule.
"YO, Missy Schoolbags...you are expendable, fo' mah greater good."
"popla" -- victim disarmament sure is...
I'm sending the grandkids to college with .380s. Pissapon the rules.
We know the penalty for being unarmed when the need for arms arises...
But what exactly is the penalty for being "caught" armed on campus at GT? Is it strictly an internal school thing, or like in Fla, where toting in "prohibited" places carries the threat of criminal prosecution and loss of license?
AT
But there's a sign, right? A No Guns sign will stop the bad guys.
AT,
I'm pretty sure it's a matter of law in Georgia, and not just school policy.
I know it was when I lived there.
Something is wrong with the forcefields. Someone call Geordi, he can fix em!
I did grad school at USC - an oasis of niceness in a sea of goblins. The magical barrier consisted of a big campus police force that specialized in profiling - not that it took much skill to distinguish between a book toting student and a gun toting gangster.
Gun-laws were one reason I chose to live far off campus. While I couldn’t carry in CA (except during drill weekends), I could still defend myself at home.
I sent this to Georgia Carry. They will get a kick out of the post.
Nature abors a vacuum. Where no crime exists, and people are deliberately made defenseless, the crime will follow as surely as free oxygen will recombine.
I did my undergrad long ago at Ill. Institute of Technology. The campus was in the very core of Chicago's urban blight from 31st to 35th street and from Wabash Ave. to the Ill. Central RR tracks. Twenty square blocks with the CTA El running down the middle parallel to State St.
A student crossing the street on the north, east or south borders of the campus had a life expectancy about as long as a flame-thrower operator on Tarawa beach.
Fortunately that was Chicago where guns are outlawed...Oh? Nevermind.
I think you nailed it, Og. The minds that come up with the thought that a rule will prevent crime are starved of oxygen.
"the goblins are getting in amongst the little lambkins "
I'm gonna start using those terms. Heh.
The apparent obliviousness of the students is dismaying too (never mind the fact that many are being programmed into lib-bots by their professors).
Recently, as I was driving a cute little Co-ed (and her friend)from a Grocery store (Chinese groceries in a warehouse in a bad part of town - I know... I know... I help the little lamkins now and then) and she remarked that I had mentioned to her that the neighborhood we were driving through was not safe to walk through at night and asked if the nearby apartment complex was also not a safe place (several blocks from the West Bank Campus). I affirmed to her that it is not a nice place to be. Her friend then perked up and said the place was just fine and that she has an aquaintance living there and that the place is just fine.
I just responded "Oh, okay", said nothing more and dropped her frined off at the upscale (1100/month for a one bedroom apartment) Grand Marc Student Housing right across from the Law School.
I could have said that I was once a Dispatcher for Off-duty Police Officers who patrolled a certain 2 block area nearby and took 2 to 3 emergency calls per shift and that I knew what the hell I was talking about, but I am kinda tired of arguing with the lamkins (other stories of similiar nature) and saying my peace is enough.
Hopefully, the laws of averages don't catch up to them.
When they passed the Indiana law prohibiting employers from banning guns in their parking lots, it took about 3 1/2 seconds for campus constabulary to put out an email stating that Universities are exempt from the prohibition.
The campus is not in what could be termed the best of areas and there have been break-ins and thefts and kids getting beaten up for having the audacity to be in the wrong computer lab when thugs wanted to remove said computers.
It's a no-win for those of us with permits.
Tam and AT, it is still Georgia state law that campuses remain off limits for legal carry. Recent legislation has clarified Georgia CCW laws and improved things considerably (for instance, nebulously defined 'public gathering' language has vastly diminished in scope).
GaTech's chapter of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus have organized protest events such as openly carrying empty holsters but I haven't heard anything from them lately. GeorgiaCarry's done a pretty great job forcing the City of Atlanta to respect state laws (carry on MARTA, carry in municipal parks, carry in non-sterile areas of Hartsfield-Jackson, the list of their accomplishments goes on..), but still no progress on campus carry.
Typical instances of violent crime reported by GaTech PD occur nearby but off-campus and seem to affect students who could be carrying if they wanted to (i.e. they weren't en route to or from campus). The event you cited is an obvious exception and quite disturbing. These types of invasions seem to be most common during move-in and move-out periods at the beginning and end of semesters.
That said, I walk to campus from Midtown and really wish I could have my 1911 at my side while coming back from late nights spent in the lab.
-- Andrew
Yeah, there was a shooting that couldn't have happened at the hospital my wife works at, recently. (Gun free zone, couldn't have happened.)
I'm thrilled that she's not allowed to carry, while the gangbangers don't care about the law.
As I recall, some institutions of higher learning have cop shops that ... massage their numbers. IOW, the crime numbers are knowingly under reported so that the school will not appear unsafe with all of the economic repercussions thereof.
In North Carolina, here is the rule about educational property under "Prohibited carry areas" per N.C. G.S.14-269.2: "Any educational property, public or private,of any kind". This has also been interpreted to any teaching hospital and numerous other places.
It does make me angry as here is an excerpt from a post I made in another Blog. (I saw what you did over there and here too Tam, well done!):
I must state that I am an educator on many levels. I have served as an Adjunct Instructor for over ten years at the Community College level in addition to my “Day job”. I am also certified to teach my state’s equivalent of your’ CHL and the NRA Basic Pistol class. Of all the things I do the latter two I find the most rewarding.
You speak of legal, civil, liability, and implementation issues that may affect your institution if your state passes CHL for campuses. I understand that on one level. You are an administrator after all.
I will however tell you that I cannot legally carry on Campus and who would you rather be there if an “incident” occurred? Unarmed faculty and staff along with a rather weak and unmotivated private protective service under contract or me? I know what the PPS people need to do to qualify in this state. Most view the qualification with the duty weapon with dread. They treat it with the same contempt an administrative assistant has for learning the latest version of Microsoft Office. I have been through three Federal background checks, fingerprinted, and spent a lot of vacation time and money to have the right to teach people the laws concerning the use of deadly force in this state. Teaching people how to run a computer network has no import compared to that.
As with any sampling of a community with one common ground you will get the “2 percent”fanatics. I must say however I have been silent for too long in my belief in the right to keep and bear arms. I am a member of the Colt Collectors Association and it pains me to see what law abiding citizens must do now to obtain pieces of history simply because they are firearms.
It also pains me to see gun owners painted with a very broad brush. Anti gun proponents are equally painted with that brush but I have not been able to open an honest discourse with many of them as they retreat usually shouting when quietly presented the facts. Perhaps it was because they were not expecting it from me."
We used to have off-duty LEO's along with Campus security personnel. That has gone away with a blanket contract job to a PPS company. I feel much less safe on Campus now.
Thanks for the linkage... the placement of Tech was a mixed blessing and curse while I was there. Seems to have definitively slid in one direction recently. At any rate, with dormitories backing up to highways, and my old one backing up to an under-85 tunnel where the worst of the worst regularly bedded down, I guess this was just a matter of time...
Hmmm. I think I need a Varsity burger for lunch.
Dang it Ed, What'll ya have!! I am not even close here. Love them burgers!
My dad went to GA Tech back in the early 1960s and said that even then you didn't leave anything in the ground floor rooms if you wanted to see it again. That and he learned what automatic weapons sounded like from the noises going on just outside Techwood. I went to another ATL-area college in the early 1990s and we were cautioned to stay away from one side of Tech and to avoid Techwood (among other areas) like the plague. I didn't go down there, not even to the Varsity, so I missed all the "fun." Not that we didn't have enough on our own campus and surrounds . . .
LittleRed1
Some additional points, Georgia Tech at least is fortunate to have its own on-campus police precinct which is part of Atlanta PD in contrast to apathetic private security agencies Keads referenced.
I'd still assert that by far the most common types of incidents occur near campus that victimize individuals who could be carrying if they wished. Take an incident that took place yesterday at 5:45pm on January 6, 2011:
A 46-year-old male, not affiliated with the Georgia Institute of Technology, was robbed at gunpoint while walking on Tenth Street, NW near Center Street, NW. According to the victim, a blue Nissan four-door passenger vehicle, stopped on Tenth Street, NW and a male passenger asked the victim if he knew where he could purchase Atlanta Falcons' tickets. The victim informed the suspect that he did not know, and the vehicle turned north onto Center Street, NW. The passenger exited the vehicle and pointed a black handgun at the victim and demanded his wallet and MP3 player. The suspect got back in to the vehicle and was last seen headed east on Tenth Street, NW.
10th St NW is the north boundary of campus, and on the other side lies the neighborhood of Homepark. It's an older neighborhood, densely populated by renting students, and ripe with valuables possessed by unassuming young people. The maze of streets and alleys running through it make a great to flee a crime scene by vehicle then diffuse back into Atlana traffic via Northside Dr or 14th st. I wish more people there carried.
-- Andrew
In fact, I often point out Homepark as a counter-example to the "students are not responsible enough to own firearms" argument.
The argument follows: if there were some downsides to students possessing firearms, we'd be able to see the consequences in neighborhoods like Homepark. Its dense student population and distance from responsible eyes very much live up to the lifestyle of drinking and debauchery people associate with college life. Moreover, nearly every one who lives there is legally permitted to own and possess semiautomatic rifles (off campus, 18 years or older), and I've known several that actually do. Nevertheless, *somehow*, there hasn't been a single report of even a negligent firearms discharge by a student in the eight years I've been an undergraduate and graduate student at Tech. No tempers flaring from the high-stress environment, nor jilted young lovers venting their unrequited love via .223 rounds. No firearms violence among students of any kind. Just studying hard and occasionally designing innovative beer bongs.
The only alcohol-fueled, firearms-related near-tragedy in Homepark that comes to my mind was the night a buddy and I had a few beers on his front porch, raced to disassemble and reassemble our 1911s, and his recoil spring launched itself into some tall grass. He almost lost it...
-- Andrew
He almost lost it... AND STARTED SHOOTING!!1!
Niece Lisa attends Georgia Tech. She has a CCW for Idaho and a .357.
I know how I want her to handle the situation. But I don't know and don't want to know how she actually handles it on campus.
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