View From The Porch: A question:

Friday, July 22, 2011

A question:

I have been informed that these pistols are spittin' images of one another. What say you?
.

63 comments:

Anonymous said...: Similar outline, but obvious differences too. They both have the shoulder thing that goes up, right?; 10:38 PM, July 22, 2011
Frank W. James said...: Someone needs their eyesight checked? In WHAT way are they spitting images of each other?...

All The Best,
Frank W. James; 10:38 PM, July 22, 2011
Linoge said...: Aside from the obvious differences, sure they are.; 10:39 PM, July 22, 2011
bluesun said...: You should throw an LCP or something in there and ask it again.; 10:42 PM, July 22, 2011
kahr40 said...: No and my eyes suck.; 10:43 PM, July 22, 2011
Carteach said...: Um..... no.; 10:49 PM, July 22, 2011
Keads said...: Uh, no in my opinion. Similar, yes but no. Here are my Colts.

Ejection ports, extractor, grip safety, grip screws, etc. They are all different!

Both are nice guns however!; 10:54 PM, July 22, 2011
MonteG said...: I can see how someone might think so, if they'd never seen a firearm in their life.; 11:00 PM, July 22, 2011
jon spencer said...: Like the old saying goes,
"Same thing only different".; 11:16 PM, July 22, 2011
Jeffro said...: So, what are we doing? Playing one of Slylock Fox's find the difference games?; 11:18 PM, July 22, 2011
USCitizen said...: Hmmm. If somone were shot with either one of those and they noticed, they might get very angry.; 11:18 PM, July 22, 2011
Bubblehead Les. said...: At 50 feet, in Bad light, behind Stained Glass, perhaps.; 11:20 PM, July 22, 2011
Cincinnatus said...: There is a company in Colorado making new manufacture copies of the baby Browning; 11:22 PM, July 22, 2011
Groundhog said...: Why yes... They do both appear to be small pistols!; 11:25 PM, July 22, 2011
Keads said...: I am more interested on the grips on the Colt. Rampant Pony in what oval on the bottom?; 11:27 PM, July 22, 2011
Anonymous said...: Well, this ain't the Arms Room, but...

**********************

AT: Speaking of Vest Pockets, slap a pony on that thing and...

Tam: Actually, Mike's comment below yours was right. Mechanically, it's a lot closer to the S&W Escort than the Colt Vest Pocket. (The biggest visual cue being the recoil assembly above the barrel rather than beneath it.)

AT: Such a geek. Mechanics? P'shaw.
In art, all is form and aesthetic.
And it wanted to be a Colt so bad...

Tam: Yeah, I guess to the casual observer, they do look a little alike.

Other than where the barrel is, or how far forward the grip is on the frame, or the ejection port being in the frame rather than the slide... I mean, other than that, (and the completely different location and arrangement of the cocking serrations,) they look practically identical. ;)

Both of them, for instance, lack the shoulder thing that goes up. :D

AT: Well you're the exspurt, but they do both have that hole thingy that goes bang...

So, how much of that radical departure is 'cuz it's furrin, and how much is due to the lawyerly pursuits of the 19 aughts?

Tam: Speaking as a drip under pressure, I would point out that the Colt 1908 Vest Pocket is foreign, too, being merely the domestic copy of the FN 1905... :)

AT:...itself being "merely" the capably executed design of a rather thoroughly domestic product*...:b

Which was of course the rather thoroughly and determinedly if weakly missed/dissed point. No pressure.

*(pbuh)

Tam: I'm sitting here looking at both, AT. Like I said, to someone completely unfamiliar with firearms, I guess they look alike, in the same way that a Checker Cab and an '82 Crown Vic do.

"No pressure."

Nope, no pressure at all. The picture with the one next to the other will go up on the Arms Room. You can then defend your claim against the class. No pressure. :)

AT: Just the drip drip drip of literalist Tamarese torture...I shoulda tossed in one of those disclaimers of yours I guess.

'82 Crown Vic? No, all Checkers wanted to be '57 Chevys.

And all early pistols wanted to be Colt's.

Both missed the mark by a bit.

*************************

Man, I couldn't find that "spittin' image" thing in there anywhere. Defense rests.

Fun! Let's play again!

AT; 12:22 AM, July 23, 2011
Brad K. said...: Tam,

Most of my pistol time was in the US Navy, aboard the USS South Carolina, CGN-37, doing 'familiarization firing' on the fantail, offshore. We aimed at the water, and most of us hit the target. Today I wonder that I passed up on the chance of firing the M-60 machine gun. One of the Chiefs had a blast with it (he had used one for effect in Vietnam).

But it looks to me like the Colt positions the hand completely differently, significantly lowering the trigger with respect to the top of the hand. It looks to me like the hand and grip placement mean the two guns have significantly different uses.; 12:44 AM, July 23, 2011
The Scribbler said...: I wanted to be charitable and say that the silhouettes at least are identical.... but they aren't. I wanted to be charitable and say that the trigger guards are identical... but they aren't. I wanted to be charitable and say that the sights are the same... but they aren't. No feature looks to be exactly the same between the pistols. Still, it is understandable in those who are not of a gunnie persuasion. And legally blind.; 12:56 AM, July 23, 2011
RevGreg said...: Yeah...uhm...so...uh...not at all.; 1:09 AM, July 23, 2011
Armed Texan said...: Who informed you of that? Sarah Brady?; 1:16 AM, July 23, 2011
Anonymous said...: Only to someone totally ignorant of the characteristics of firearms in general, or a journalist. But I repeat myself...; 1:18 AM, July 23, 2011
Montie said...: USCitizen,

While the Bayard and the Colt Vest Pocket were both available in .25 ACP which I assume is the gist of your remark about noticing being shot with either, I believe that particular Bayard is a .380 ACP. Which, considering the size comparison with the Colt, is kinda cool in and of itself.; 1:29 AM, July 23, 2011
Drang said...: Still waiting for the penny to drop.

Doesn't look likely to me that they are even similar mechanically, let alone, um, aesthetically.; 3:30 AM, July 23, 2011
Cybrludite said...: Side-by-side, not so much. Looking at one when it's been a while since you've seen the other, I'd say it's understandable that one might think so. (Particularly if one had never seen either in the flesh.) Heck, I had a Vest Pocket Model of my own until Katrina, and I did a double-take when I first glanced over the pics from yesterday. Of course, I'd be hard pressed to tell Kei$ha, Brittany, or Agulerra apart so take that as you will.; 3:33 AM, July 23, 2011
Ancient Woodsman said...: Yes, they are identical.

They are both Glocks, and should be banned.

Remember, there are those who emphatically believe both are true.; 5:43 AM, July 23, 2011
Tam said...: Keads,

"I am more interested on the grips on the Colt. Rampant Pony in what oval on the bottom?"

That's a stylized "C". Those are the "1st Pattern" grips; the gun has a very low 5-digit S/N (101xx) and dates to 1909.

Brad K.,

"But it looks to me like the Colt positions the hand completely differently, significantly lowering the trigger with respect to the top of the hand."

The Colt is striker-fired, whereas the Bayard uses an enclosed hammer, hence the completely different contours.; 7:42 AM, July 23, 2011
Anonymous said...: The bluing is similar, or at least the effects of time have made the steel look similar. They are both small semi-autos. Beyond that, no. Grips are different, bodies are different, slides are different, (vastly different,look at where the ejection ports are), and because of that I'd say the internals, while following the same theme (i.e., semi-auto pistol) must needs be vastly different.; 8:59 AM, July 23, 2011
S. L. Haynes said...: Not even close.; 9:08 AM, July 23, 2011
og said...: Isn't the bayard unique or very nearly so in that it ejects the spent cartrige out of the frame, and not a slide cutout? I can't think of any other post 1900 sidearm that does that, not that there isn't. In other words, couldn't possibly be much different. I know that you can shift your grip up and use your second finger to pull the trigger, and get an excellent burn on your index finger. Stop laughing.

WV Frott. Not going there.; 9:28 AM, July 23, 2011
Ritchie said...: From a distance, if the light's not too good, the same way I resemble Clint Eastwood.; 9:36 AM, July 23, 2011
Tam said...: Og,

"I can't think of any other post 1900 sidearm that does that, not that there isn't."

The best known would be the S&W Model 61 Escort, oddly enough.; 9:53 AM, July 23, 2011
Cargosquid said...: According to the VPC, they are identical weapons of mass destruction.

According to the press, they are identical AK-47 machine guns.; 9:59 AM, July 23, 2011
Ed Foster said...: I don't know. What do you think, USCitizen or Bubblehead Les for today's winner?; 11:25 AM, July 23, 2011
RL said...: I'll bet they looked the same to all the mice that lost their furry little lives to them.

WV: xurearyc

Just say no to urea rice.; 11:40 AM, July 23, 2011
45er said...: Is this a joke? Please tell me someone was kidding when they said that.; 12:40 PM, July 23, 2011
Angus McThag said...: Any two machines designed for the same purpose will bear a superficial resemblance to each other.

These are both pocket pistols, so their general outline is similar.; 1:15 PM, July 23, 2011
Anonymous said...: Spitting image? No. Look a lot alike, yes. Particularly if you don't know about things like grip safeties, and whatnot. If you're a gun geek, it's obvious. If you're not, they're both small autopistols. Yeah, they look a lot alike.; 3:04 PM, July 23, 2011
MikeMcDaniel said...: Well, other than having entirely different slides, frame configurations, ejectors, sights, methods of grip panel attachment, and the fact that the Colt has a grip safety and the other does not, they're twins.

"Spittin' Images?" Only it you're spittin' in the dark. I'm sure some folks will say that they're both small semiautomatic pistols, but horses and zebras look pretty much alike too until you actually pay a bit of attention.; 4:55 PM, July 23, 2011
Matthew said...: They Bayard is from the Mirror, Mirror universe. You can tell by the tiny goatee.; 5:02 PM, July 23, 2011
bob said...: Across a fairly large room lit by a single CFL maybe.; 8:46 PM, July 23, 2011
jed said...: In the same sense that a coffee cup is topologically identical to a doughnut, yes, they're identical.; 10:06 PM, July 23, 2011
Uncle Tom said...: I was waiting for the "In the sense that they kill people and should be BANNED!!!!" remark but it did not appear. That means that your readers are, or appear to be, ;) intelligent people. That being said, I am a rookie gun collecting. So far I have no pistols in my collection, all though I drool over the ones you post. Yet at first glance I noticed the slide difference, then as I looked closer I saw the sights, grips ect. So like has already been said, they are similar in that they are pocket semi autos and it ends there.; 12:46 AM, July 24, 2011
og said...: Ah, I'd forgotten about the 61. I figured if there was anyone who would know...

Actually, aside from grips, the 61 does look a little bit like the bayard.

WV; Blerymbl. Unlike the Bayard or the Colt, or even the Smith, the blerymbl ejected spent casings from a specially constructed tube exiting near the nether regions, often scaring attackers more than the actual gunfire.; 4:42 AM, July 24, 2011
Tam said...: Og,

"Ah, I'd forgotten about the 61. I figured if there was anyone who would know...

Actually, aside from grips, the 61 does look a little bit like the bayard."

After I typed that, I took the NRA Guide To Pistols And Revolvers into the reading room to see if it had a Model 61 in it.

As it turns out, the 61 isn't just "like" the Bayard in layout, it practically is a Bayard, albeit in alloy and chambered for a rimfire cartridge. Heck, they even both disassemble via the front sight... I never wanted one of those ridiculous little Smith purse .22s before, but now I want one bad.; 9:06 AM, July 24, 2011
Anonymous said...: Hey I remember those little Smifs...I didn't care for them either because I already had a Jetfire and they are exactly alike, so...

That oughta be good to milk it for another 40 or so Capt. Obvious comments.:)

Or...you could admit that the post is bogus and respond to the actual original (obscure) commentary/inquiry. Shall I break it down for you, again?

AT; 9:32 AM, July 24, 2011
Anonymous said...: Similar but not congruent.

I knew 8th grade wasn't wasted

Gerry; 9:46 AM, July 24, 2011
Tam said...: "Shall I break it down for you, again?"

Please, as obviously I have yet to grasp what exactly you're saying.; 11:33 AM, July 24, 2011
Anonymous said...: Capt. Tam O.? Yeah, I ain't buyin' it.

But what the hell.

So, just say that the line "I have been informed that these pistols are spittin' images of one another." is a disingenuous fabrication, and I'll regurgitate -I mean reiterate-and clarify my tangential reference and intent.

AT; 2:04 PM, July 24, 2011
Anonymous said...: That must be some spit!; 2:11 PM, July 24, 2011
Kristophr said...: [ sarcasm alert ]

Of course they are identical. They are both semi-automatic machineguns that take a clip that can be replaced or modified to hold hundreds of cop killer bullets.; 3:44 PM, July 24, 2011
Kristophr said...: ( actually, a .25 pistol with an extended magazine and a fun switch would be kinda cool ... ); 3:45 PM, July 24, 2011
Tam said...: Aloysius Terego,

"Capt. Tam O.? Yeah, I ain't buyin' it."

You can buy what you want to buy.

I still have no clue what you're driving at.; 4:13 PM, July 24, 2011
Anonymous said...: And you still haven't said that your referenced quote does not exist.

Doesn't matter; what started as a droll connection to an earlier post was soured long ago by your superficial, literal, smarmy, and weakly attempted belittling responses.

But I know you're not a pissy humorless bitch, even if you sometimes play one pretty well on the 'tubes.:)

Aloysius huh? FYI, Al is short for Alpha. PPPFFFTTT! Even I couldn't keep a straight face with that one.

But hey, I could call myself Alpha Tango...that's even better than Eduardo Carochio!

AT; 5:20 PM, July 24, 2011
Tam said...: "But I know you're not a pissy humorless bitch..."

Apparently I am.

I reiterate: I have not a clue what point you're tying to make here.; 5:36 PM, July 24, 2011
Anonymous said...: "Apparently I am."

Na. At least not just. I wouldn't still be here otherwise. And you might think that would be just as well, but there ya go.

The first point was made but missed (and is totally pedestrian and anticlimactic at this um, point), but the one I'm "t(r)ying to make here" is, you still haven't owned up to your Jayson Blair bit.

AT; 6:31 PM, July 24, 2011
Scout26 said...: Ummm, they have black grips....

What do I win?

wv:nonadar- the other 11 months of the year.; 2:02 AM, July 25, 2011
Anonymous said...: Nope. General firearm shape? Yup, sorta. Spittin image? Not at all.; 2:33 AM, July 25, 2011
wrm said...: Furrfu. FN themselves seem to think the 1905 is the same thing as the Baby (http://www.browning.com/customerservice/dategun/detail.asp?id=6) so what are we mere plebs to think?; 4:15 AM, July 25, 2011
mariner said...: Drooling resemblance, maybe.; 7:02 PM, July 25, 2011
Beaumont said...: If the pictured Bayard is indeed a .380, then I wouldn't mind owning one myself.

@Kristopher: Years ago, American Derringer Co. announced a ".251 Magnum" pistol. Basically a stretched .25ACP case in an apparently .32/.380 size pocket pistol. Not sure if any were actually made, but it was an interesting concept.; 9:35 PM, July 25, 2011
Anonymous said...: The both make liberals wet themselves, so, yeah, they're the same.

Antibubba; 1:52 AM, July 26, 2011
Anonymous said...: I think they look like one another. Yes, there are differences, but for a non-gun geek, they look a lot alike.

I mean, I can tell the difference between a monocyte and an activated lymphocyte at a glance. I've been doing this for ten years.; 10:10 PM, July 26, 2011
Anonymous said...: Your "informant" is either blind (and without a very good sense of touch), mildly deranged or is, as our British "cousins" might put it, trying to have you on a bit...

- Both are guns

- Both are relatively small

- Both operate (properly) in a general manner termed "semi-automatic"

- Both are almost certainly in a caliber that is only useful for making a moderate amount of noise and adequate holes in paper targets at quite close range (provided the paper is not too thick or stiff)(disclaimer: some make claims of adequacy for the .380 as a useful defensive cartridge - but, from a barrel that short, I am not among them.

- Aside from that (and some minor peripheral characteristics - sights, trigger, grips, etc.), no correspondence whatsoever.

Next question?; 8:44 PM, July 28, 2011

View From The Porch

Friday, July 22, 2011

A question:

63 comments:

About Me

Other Media!

Starving Artist Ammo Fund

Blogs

Links

More Awesome Blogs!

Facebook Badge

Blog Archive

Labels

All Is Vanity...