Saturday, May 07, 2011

Imagine that.

Noam Chomsky is all upset at the death of Osama Bin Laden. This is my shocked face.

Meanwhile, maybe it's just a result of me getting older, but I find myself poignantly remembering those nearly-forgotten days when we still had grownups in Washington DC, rather than a pack of over-the-hill hippies so obviously trying to compensate for their shiny new bald spots...



I still remember walking into a classroom that morning to find that some wag had written on the chalkboard:
Good morning, Khadaffy,
Care to make any threats?
Go right ahead,
We have plenty more jets.

We hope you learned your lesson,
Only time will tell.
But do keep in mind,
Payback is hell.

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

Noam panties in a wad and Reagan giving them hell! The smile on my face will last all day long.

Thank you Tam!

Gerry

Anonymous said...

America -- f*ck yeah!
Freedom is the only way yeah!

Standard Mischief said...

As someone who has rubbed many people the wrong way by repeating the "POW or civilian courts and civil rights" mantra, I have to wholeheartedly agree that flying the battlefield to his home 20 and then killing him there on that battlefield was the right thing to do.

Besides, how many innocent civilians would die in the extremist's hands if we captured him alive, and flew him home for a show trial?

Au├čenseiter said...

He disappointed me. I thought he was a good man that would be glad a monster like Osama is dead.

Brad K. said...

First, I find that Noam Chomsky is awfully free with convictions of war crimes (Pres. Bush) at the same time he accords bin Laden 'suspect' status.

Second, Chomsky is a peacenik. Ignoring world history, Chomsky would apparently debate the suggestion that lack of resistance in the face of tyranny is not peace.

But I have to question Obama's latest re-election gag, claiming victory for having bin Laden killed. By all accounts, this is retaliation, or revenge, with nothing of justice involved. This was a vigilante act to further Obama's re-election campaign, a vote-buying stunt.

Justice requires a clear presentation of evidence, and a chance to refute accusations. There didn't appear to be anything of the kind, here, not for bin Laden, and not coming from the Obama White House.

But then, President Narcissist doesn't exactly have a reputation for quibbling over facts, evidence, oversight functions, or ethics.

Al Capone and his Chicago would have been proud.

Tam said...

Brad K.,

"This was a vigilante act to further Obama's re-election campaign, a vote-buying stunt."

Obama taking credit for this is like me taking credit for continuing the scheduled maintenance on my car after I bought it second-hand.

"My fellow Americans, today I ordered the shop to change the spark plugs on schedule as planned."

Tam said...

"I thought he was a good man..."

Figures you'd have a soft spot for shrill old Wobblies.

Au├čenseiter said...

You know.. you can say whatever about him, but he is smart. Or was once.

I mean.. I have exchanged two long personal emails this week with a psychopathic sadist(Dexter Morgan in RL, except this guy is 55 or so and works in corporate world.. is doing pretty good).

He tries not to hurt people, not to break the law. He likes being free..knows that if you are seen as a good person.. that it's better than to be known as monster.

So.. even sadistic psychopaths might do some good. Maybe. If they can control their darker urges.
Also.. never give them a good excuse to get medieval on your ass.

This guy's hobby is helping his friends** get revenge at some other asshole.. and scaring them so badly that they you know.. are glad that they are his friends. That they've struck a bargain with the devil..

Guy also writes a scary, kickass blog. Imho if he put it into book form it'd sell very well.. I told him that too.

So.. I was kind of expecting Chomsky, who is not a psychopath, to be you know.. that he would see that although it wasn't exactly the right thing to do and was done for motives he doesn't like.. killing OBL was good (I'm still hoping they are lying about the dead part and he is being waterboarded somewhere..)

**
he says he can read us like a book and play us like a violin..

Outsider said...

Note to others:
Psychopaths are humans too. I am gonna bet that half the military heros are psychopaths.

The fact that they make up ~4-5% of the population, are less fearful than us.. and the fact that 5% of US combat troops polled in WWII said they 'enjoy' the fighting.. that these two statistics are related.

BTW... psychopaths never get PTSD. They could eat babies for breakfast, kill a hundred people before they go to bed and they'll sleep like kittens afterwards.

mongo78 said...

Someone on Usenet, years ago, coined the phrase "prolix autism". I can't think of a better way to describe the nonsense that comes out of that man's head.

Outsider said...

They just feel other emotions..

Of the 26 human emotions, they lack around 6. Estimates..

No conscience or remorse either for them. The smart ones are very big on logic and self interest. I'd say their philosophy is pretty much objectivism without all the BS Ayn Rand added to it.

Me.. I lack one emotion. Sometimes. I'm just .. you know. Smart and eccentric.

BTW.. I tried asking out this very beautiful nice psychiatrist yesterday. Just five years older than me..

/I went there just to get some sleeping pills without prescription. Lost the other pills. :(

staghounds said...

"We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush’s compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic."

We know exactly how we would be reacting.

Tam said...

"Me.. I lack one emotion. Sometimes. I'm just .. you know. Smart and eccentric."

And modest, too. Don't forget modest.

Also, you're possessed of that special quality that makes you try to tell someone who's spent the last 20 years working cheek-by-jowl with door-kickers and face-shooters what those people are like. Really? Do tell...

Outsider said...

Listen... I'm 26. If I learn how to be modest, humble and polite by the time I'm 30.. it will be far earlier than average.

A lot of people never, ever acquire these qualities.

Also... I'm told I might be hypomanic right about now. So..

Anyway. Was I inaccurate in these posts? Do they seem like bullshit to you? Stuff that makes no sense at all if considered carefully?

That's what I'm interested in.

Outsider said...

And I'm not saying that all good warriors are psychopaths.

Just that a lot of them may be. Because psychopathic traits are very good for exciting, streesful and dangerous occupations like being a warrior.

It's a guess. One that I'd wager money on.. but just a guess.

Anonymous said...

Warriors? Psycho? I am one, and I've got an official MInd Audit in my med recs, required at least yearly, sometimes repeated more frequently, that says I'm not.

Valid? Well, the requirement is to have medical & psych permission, in writing, to go back to work after even a minor ... illness. Let's see, for the last 12 years or so ....

Evidently, the majority of us are NOT psycho. We comprehend that our jobs and tasks sometimes generate results which appear beyond the pale, but we also understand that it often takes strong action to prevent even worse events. And that those not in the know are making judgements based on incomplete and inaccurate assumptions.

You know, one hopes, what they say about assumptions? Everybody's got one.

Wanna help shoulder the burden or just complain? Join up. Or quit yer bitchin'.

Outsider said...

Hey.

I would love shooting Talibans from a klick away.

But
1) I can't take orders from people I don't respect
2) can only work in warm climates.
Freezing and below.. my extremities shut down circulation. Just cool down. Most people are all red in thermal false colour NV.. I'm red but with blue hands, nose.. etc.

So.. I wouldn't get accepted anyway. Even if I were a US citizen...

Also.. about psychopaths.
Those guys can charm parole boards to let them out..

They have no firm self. Formless..that's what their personality is. No one and everyone. They can pretend to have any personality. They learn by observing us and mimicking our ways.

You think they can be found out by some cursory miliary psych testing?

The only way you can really find one out is by a brain scan. Or measure their fear responses while showing them alternating pictures.. puppies and dismembered puppies. Normal people freak out at violence.. these guys. They sometimes like it.

At least that's what this forensic psychologist I know says. Brain scans or fear responses..

Post here your mail. If I ever run across good article on why they make great warriors.. I'll send you.

Outsider said...

Also.. they never get PTSD..

How about that?

Outsider said...

One more thing: some countries don't consider psychopathy(no conscience, remorse, no feeling of love, different fear responses) to be an ilness.

Smart psychopaths blend in very well.. and don't break the law. They are the guys who always make sure to stay within the letter of the law.

Sociopaths.. they are different. Psychopaths are more genetically caused.. sociopaths are sort of failed normal humans.

Anyway. Hard to do research on these guys... almost all has been done on criminals. So what they smart ones do.. no one really knows.

Also.. I meant no offence. I respect people who fight for what they believe in. Maybe not their top commanders... too much politics bullshit there.

rremington said...

Not to change the subject but GOD I miss Reagan.

And it looks like Gecko45 is back...

perlhaqr said...

Holy crap! That's where that sample came from.

"He counted on America to be passive. He counted wrong."

Neat!

Outsider said...

@rremington

Even though it was during his administration that this whole huge public debt ball started rolling?

People were busy predicting catastrophe from that debt in 1990's.

Little did they know what would happen in 2001..

I just wonder how high the debt is gonna run before very high inflation or default happens...

Anonymous said...

"Psychopaths are more genetically caused.. sociopaths are sort of failed normal humans"

Incorrect. The differences are slight (if not at times indistinguishable). Moreover, there is no evidence of certain genes creating specific disorders, only correlation and there is no way to tell what the important variables are.

As to warriors being psychopathic, I suggest you read "Guns, Bullets and Gunfights by Jim Cirillo. He has a very good test and description of those who could make the cut. Psychopaths need not apply.

"You think they can be found out by some cursory military psych testing?"
They have and will continue to be so. As with everything, it's always more about the skill of the tester than the test itself.

About Chomsky, he lives in his head not in reality. I prefer it when he stays there.

Terry

wv: istsph. Where Chomsky now thinks language comes from.

Anonymous said...

Psychopaths are humans too. I am gonna bet that half the military heros are psychopaths.

No. You remind me of a vegan talking about Kobe beef. No scale of reference.

Al T.

wv = kilinx - if you weren't so stupid, you'd end up in one.

global village idiot said...

Back to Chomsky...

I once heard him speak on NPR. If memory serves, he was addressing the National Press Club; memory does NOT serve when it comes to his topic, but I remember it had nothing to do with politics and that it was very clever. He was a good and articulate speaker.

Mr. Chomsky, it seems, suffers from the same problem other clever folks do - expertise in one field does not necessarily translate into expertise in another, and the narrower the field, the greater the tendency for the expert to believe he is qualified in areas outside his purview.

Mr. Chomsky has a cult following, making it worse. They hang onto and validate everything he says - He's so clever, what he's saying MUST be true!

He's not the only one in whom such an effect is observable. Chomsky, Hawking, Ayn Rand, the Former Junior Senator from Illinois...I'm sure there's a name for the phenomenon but I don't know it.

gvi

Old NFO said...

I can only wonder what planet Chomsky is from... sigh...

Outsider said...

@Terry

I know it's been not positively established, but there is good evidence that psychopathy, primary psychopathy is genetically caused. Enviroment surely plays a role.

If you look you can find:
1) sob stories of normal, healthy parents wondering WTH happened. Their child is a psychopath. Often other siblings are normal.

2) a lot of articles about why psychopathy makes sense from the evolutionary viewpoint. Psychopaths are charming, ruthless, promiscuous. They often say James Bond is obviously a psychopath. Do people that you know.. fuck everything they can charm or kill.. is it unexpected that propensities for that kind of behavior will become fixed in certain genes?

@Al T
Well.. I've read a fuckton of military history books when I was younger. I have never fought in a war. I would probably do good.. I'm not stupid and I usually do well in complex strategy games. FPS.... especially. Most people never figure out that winning in FPS games is all about logistics. Easy money.. ;-)

So why do I think that smart psychopaths make good warriors
1) they are less affected by emotions
2) they are more predatory than us. They love nothing more than conflict. Or hunting.
3) they are not easily scared. One I know says nothing but a complete and utter surprise out of the blue can make him really scared.
4) some of them really like killing
5) some of them say they are less likely to get high on adrenaline and crash later. It takes a lot more excitement for them to experience that. Imho very advantageous.. I've not yet figured out how to train myself to do that. I suppose that if I ever have to use the gun I carry in SD, I'll crash like most people who did so. Maybe having little fear and trying to devise all possible strategies beforehand? A lot of training?

Take Hans-Ulrich Rudel. Certainly not a Yossarian.. he flew something like 2500 combat missions and destroyed, personally, with his plane more stuff than some small wars.

He continued flying after he lost one leg. He climbed a 5 km mountains after as partial invalid.
He really wasn't after the quiet life. Probably liked fighting. No doubt he could've talked his way into becoming a trainer after 1500 combat missions.

No way to prove he was.... unless someone could find his really private diary or something.

Also.. next year a book comes out on succesful psychopaths. Seems to be less blinkered than all the legions of books describing them as pure evil.

http://www.convilleandwalsh.com/index.php/titles/title/the-wisdom-of-psychopaths/

McVee said...

Above ^^^^
Has crazy theories. Check.
No more test subjects left (all the books have been written). Check.
Not an American. Check.
Cant handle the cold. Check.
Never a warrior. Check.
Who is Josef Mengeles Grandson? :)

Oh, And RR summed up, "It is an honor to be your Commander in Chief"
Win!

Outsider said...

(LOL)

Well.. it's an honor to be accused of being Gecko45.

I think it's harder to find a greater example of succesful, constructive trolling than inventing the Mall Ninja..

Anyway. I got stuff to do and beautiful psychiatrists to scare..

nbc said...

@Outsider

You may not be American, but I'll bet next month's deficit payment on the fact that you're from a Commonwealth country - most of which have troops in the 'Stan. So you could volunteer for your home nation's forces or you could volunteer for the British Army who are always happy to recruit from the ex-colonies (um, except one - who got upset about taxes or representation or some other kerfuffle)

I'm sure they could get you up to speed for a summer tour, which I'm confident would not be cold.

Tam said...

"Well.. I've read a fuckton of military history books when I was younger. I have never fought in a war. I would probably do good.. I'm not stupid and I usually do well in complex strategy games. FPS.... especially. Most people never figure out that winning in FPS games is all about logistics. Easy money.. ;-)"

Dude, I know who Al T. is. He's a personal friend of mine, and I'm quite familiar with his resume. In that light, your comment had me rolling.

You literally just told Michael Schumacher that you thought you'd be awesome in F1 because you've played a lot of X-Box.

Oh, and I know Gecko45. Gecko45 was a coworker of mine for several years. You, sir, are no Gecko45. ;)

Outsider said...

@nbc

Deficit?

Dude.. if you are gonna send me a Micro Desert Eagle to a engineering student who just doesn't have that much money to spend on guns(which here cost 40% more per piece than in the US) I'd be real glad.

For the record, the only English speaking territory I've ever visited was Gibraltar. For three hours.

Besides.. english are wankers. I tried making conversations like I usually do with tourists here.. and these guys told me to piss off. Usually, people are happy to chat.

True.. my country is in the NATO and has forces in Afghanistan.. but I told the draft board I don't want to be listed as a draft possibility.

My resting heart rate was too low(48 beats/minute), I wear glasses and my opinion on the Slovak army was that it's a bunch of unprofessional alcoholics(used to be the case.. they are better these days)

@Tam
You know that there are guys who can sucessfully fly pilot trainer machines.. and learned their skills from flight simulator?

But you know... I'm glad I can make a grumpy old spinster like you laugh. I've had a few good chuckles myself from your writings..

Anyway.. I'm off to break glass bottles from fifty meters away..

Outsider said...

Why Micro? Aka Kevin* pistol? Pretty neat all steel pocket pistol. People around recommend it, local production. Toting around a sig knockoff is getting tiresome.. especially having to wear a jacket in this heat..

*must be awfully embarrasing to be shot by a gun with such silly name

og said...

"Anyway.. I'm off to break glass bottles from fifty meters away.."

USING ONLY HIS EGO.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Back to the original post: Chomsky is still alive? I thought that idiot opened a vein ten years ago.

Anonymous said...

Final comment on psychopathy and sociopathy.

They both have antisocial personality disorder, i.e variable degrees of "no conscience". What the psychopath has on top is "the crazy". They are not stable, have really weird thoughts crawling around in their heads, are constantly angry (though not always visibly so) and enjoy inflicting violence on others (not the same at all as liking to fight). The smooth psychopath doesn't exist, he's a sociopath (who are often cowards). There is nothing there that makes for good soldiers.

There is a genetic component to every single disorder, be it medical or mental. No one, let me repeat, NO ONE is capable of saying with any degree of certainty that the genetic aspect is more important than any other, at least not yet. Those who have are practicing bad science. The examples you give are exactly that: shallow research and sophomoric understanding of genetics, psychology and evolution and have always turned out to be wrong.

You come across as having way too much admiration for psychopaths as well as having none of the (actually non-existent) qualities you so admire. You should wonder what that says about you.

I will not be revisiting this topic on this thread.

Terry

og said...

"I will not be revisiting this topic on this thread.

Terry"

So it has been written. So it shall be done.

wait....

Outsider said...

@Terry

If you are not a clod.. in time you'll see you are wrong. Sure, psychopaths may have weird thoughts, but creativity is all about thinking in weird ways.

And the ones I've talked to are more rational than 95% of readers of this blog.

Shallow understanding? Go publicy debate Peter Watts(writer). Most of what I've written I've read in his books or articles.

You'll get your ass whupped I bet.

@Og
That was a good one :-)

Actually.. my ego. It's weird. On one hand, I know I am smart and have the papers for it. On the other hand... I don't really believe in myself. So..

Anyway. Too bad the 16J airguns cannot break glass that far away. Should've gotten a rimfire, but then you can't shoot outside.

And I can't tune it up to higher power.. as it's a .177 and supersonic diabolos are not accurate.

Tam said...

Don't worry, Terry; he's from the internet.

Outsider said...

@Tam

Yeah. I'm from the internet.:-)

But someone who runs a blog that probably makes them some money from ads is very much more from the internet.. IMO. Not to mention you are a far more prolific meme abuser than I am, and you are one who if she were unable to abuse more memes would most likely start suffering withdrawal symptoms and would have to go tape some bacon to her cat..

staghounds said...

gvi, I call it the Jameson-Einstein syndrome

Anonymous said...

"Don't worry, Terry; he's from the internet"

Am not in the least but thank you nonetheless :-)

Apparantly he likes to dig his own holes.

Terry

Outsider said...

Yeah. Digging holes is fun.. and good exercise.

All those pasty, doughy Americans could get in shape if they started digging in their gardens..

Anyway.. none of you have provided any rational arguments why what I wrote about psychopaths is untrue.

@Tam
I don't think I mentioned this blog..

http://notablepath.blogspot.com/

Not so much stuff about guns or snark, but lots of good info on how to deal with psychopaths and sociopaths..

Outsider said...

@Everyone

Yeah. I expect some snarking about how the best way to deal with them is to shoot them in the head.. but the smart ones will fuck you over without ever giving you a good excuse to go ballistic on them..

Robin said...

Chomsky makes more sense if you ditch the assumption that he wants to make sense.

Chomsky is just full of seething hatreds and all of his writings are just ways to explain to himself why he's not in charge even though he's convinced that the Universe really meant for him to be in charge.

Joe in PNG said...

Outsider, you are the Very Model of a Modern Armchair General!

Outsider said...

@Joe
I have no leadership aspirations.. or armchair generalship.

Ranting about psychopaths and stuff like that doesn't count, I think.