Wednesday, July 10, 2013

QotD: Llama Edition...

From PDB on the current gunternet shenanigans:
Do be prepared to spend more than a couple hours peeling down the onion of butthurt. It seems that every drama was preceded by other drama. 
Indeed. From all I can tell, it's a butthurt wrapped in an agenda shrouded in a vendetta drizzled with pettiness and rolled in a crunchy nougat of simple greed.

20 comments:

Al T. said...

What clownshoes.

Ian Argent said...

I thought gunter.net was where Germans got together to have flamewars about what type of sunscreen to wear while marching down the Champs d'elysees.

Jeremy Brock said...

Good lord, there went a couple of hours that I'll never get back. And these guys are the professionals.

Yeah. I really want some training now that there's a point to it (i.e. I'm living in the US), but not being an Operator and not playing one on the internet means can probably go with somebody old and uncool like Mas Ayoob or Clint Smith. ;)

Tam said...

Seriously, if you were going to go to Just One Gun School and wanted to get the most mileage from your training dollar as a CCW toter, Ayoob's MAG-40 would be hard to beat.

Jeremy Brock said...

Ayoob comes so highly recommended, by so many savvy people, that he's at the top of my list. Just as soon as I'm all nice and legal--which shouldn't be long, Indiana being "shall issue" last time I looked--I'll be looking to either take a few days at MAG's home base (still in Florida?) or catch their road show at first opportunity.

Micki Mahoney said...

@Ian Argent: no, "gunternets" are like Spanx for ladies of a certain vintage.

(And if anyone actually got that joke, I can only apologise for the mental image.)

bluesun said...

Ahhh, nothin' like a good dose of internet hoopla to clear the sinuses!

Anonymous said...

Seriously, if you were going to go to Just One Gun School and wanted to get the most mileage from your training dollar as a CCW toter, Ayoob's MAG-40 would be hard to beat.

This.

I've attended Ayoob's old LFI-1, 2, and 3.

Taken classes from Cirillo, Taylor and Hackathorn. As well as many from my more regional rather than national 'named' instructors.

Lot's of tools in the toolbox, but if given the choice of one and only one class to take - it'd be MAG-40. Heck, given the choice of more than one, after basic operation and familiarity it would still start with MAG-40.

Anonymous said...

Wow.

Was looking for classes to gift the wife. Not going anywhere near any of those egos.

I'm kinda sick of the "Gunfighter Fantasy Camp" training anyway (stolen term from one of the gazillion posts on the drama). And I laugh out loud every time someone calls a book report about a training class an "After Action Report". Huh? More fantasy...

People enjoy fantasy and good for them finding places they can buy it. But it's taking over the legitimate firearms education industry, I fear. When I want to make sure my wife gets the objective review from someone who just helps people shoot better and safer, I don't care care about whether they are (or play) ninjas now or in the past. I just want them to help her with the things I don't see or just don't know.

Here's hoping the whole gun training industry gets divorced from fantasy camp and focuses more on just teaching practical skills in safe ways, without ego getting in the way. Last time I looked, the NRA courses are simply good courses where people go to get some decent skills. No "Tier One Operators" who think more of themselves than others.

I entertained a Vickers class once. Something just didn't seem right. The person on the phone got offended when I asked the instructor/student ratio (and never quite answered in an honest fashion). I followed my gut and am glad I did.

I am heartened to hear Ayoob is a good teacher that is interested in the student and improving their practical skills. Thanks for the tip.

Kansas Gunner said...

There are niether enough faces nor enough palms in the world for just how stupid this little interwebs drama outbreak was.

Al T. said...

Anony @ 3:51, Tom Givens with Rangemaster out of Memphis Tenn. is another first rate teacher. Get Ayoob for the framework, then Givens for the rest of the wagon. :)

Just My 2¢ said...

Wow...
DocGKR abandoned Arfcom because of this kind of stuff. I'm fortunate to belong to a very small board where he speaks pretty freely.

Doc is on my list of authors where I:
1. Think 10 times before disagreeing.
2. Read the entire post at least twice.
3. Am prepared to save notes for future reference.

As always, this is just my 2¢

perlhaqr said...

So, only having limited hours in my day, is this something that's actually important (even as "important" as the Zumbo affair or the HS Precision Horiuchi crapfest) or is it just a trainwreck that's hard to look away from?

Tam said...

perlhaqr,

There's a lot of "inside baseball" that directly relates to its amusement factor.

If you are at least familiar with all the players, the trainwreck is almost impossible to look away from. Otherwise it probably contains a jaw-dropping amount of WTFery...

mikelaforge said...

This is worthy of an award in its own right - "From all I can tell, it's a butthurt wrapped in an agenda shrouded in a vendetta drizzled with pettiness and rolled in a crunchy nougat of simple greed."

Motor-T said...

Trying hard to care. Failing.

Kristophr said...

If you aren't an insider, this is almost as amusing as weird Japanese anime.

Rob Reed said...

I agree that Mas' MAG 20 or MAG 40 (same as MAG 20, but with shooting as well) should be "the class you take if you only take one."

If anyone cares, other instructors I recommend, based on personal experience are:

John Farnam/DTI

Dave Spaulding

Tom Givens/Rangemaster

Steve Fisher/Magpul

Tom Fin/MDFI

Dave Copp/MilCop

There are others, but these are the ones I've trained with or know personally and can recommend 100% without hesitation.

If they share anything, it's that they all tend to be "no nonsense" types trying to teach what works, not the fad of the day.

Rob (Trebor)

Anonymous said...

What! No bruschetta??

Antibubba

TigerStripe said...

It looked to me like someone was really wanting to get butthurt from what I saw of the original "AAR" over at M4C.
-------------------------------
"And I laugh out loud every time someone calls a book report about a training class an 'After Action Report'."

When I was an AR mod at a forum I resisted the use of AAR's because the forum wasn't a military forum. I lost.