Thursday, February 26, 2009

Here it comes...

The Obama administration will seek to reinstate the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004 during the Bush administration, Attorney General Eric Holder said today.

I think the reaction to this is going to depend largely on how they try to go about it. Nobody took to the streets in '89 or '94, after all. But the '94 ban was carefully crafted to keep people from taking to the streets, and it still cost half of Congress their jobs.

Anything that tries to involve licensing or registration, however, will be lucky to just meet with massive noncompliance. After all, California's had the frog on "simmer" for over twenty years, and if they have even a 30% compliance rate, I'll eat my hat. Worse yet, especially with the overall national mood the way it is, it wouldn't surprise me if some folks crack and just start shootin'. It's not like they haven't been warning anybody...

53 comments:

GeorgeH said...

Crack, no.
Shoot, yes.

I'm an old man. I don't have the time to wait and see if unendurable legislation can be overturned later. If it passes, I will do what I have to to shock the conscience of the nation. You youngsters should exhaust the elective process before you try any other way.

Ken said...

If the Regime can ram through "comprehensive immigration reform" before they have to answer at the ballot box for a new AWB...

...they won't have to answer at the ballot box.

Then what?

Anonymous said...

At the Nation Firearms Seminar in Louisville in May of 2008, even the FBI admitted that California had a less than 1% compliance rate. New Jersey had an estimated 0.01% compliance rate.

This won't go well for the Democrats, Liberty Tree watered or unwatered.

Shootin' Buddy

Phillip said...

According to some news reports, the shooting is already happening. I read about a courthouse that's had bullet holes found in the past few days. There are also people using paint cans on legislators private cars and houses. Just imagine what will happen if they try something Draconian.

Back in '94, there hadn't been movies like V for Vendetta. There weren't so many people angry about the economy, lost jobs, and so forth. There weren't people feeling like they didn't have a future.

Passing a new ban at this point is quite likely to cost some politicians more than votes when their constituents decide they're beyond redemption.

So you don't think I'm some kook... I'm a computer tech, and work with normal, ordinary business people, who normally just want to go about their business. I've been hearing talk about revolution, about not being able to stand it much longer, about the taxes and the infringements on liberty, and so forth for over a year now. It started under Bush, and is getting louder and more directed all the time.

The people I'm running into are tired. They're tired of paying so much in taxes and seeing their money wasted. They're tired of seeing people go to jail for things they don't think are crimes, while robbers and rapists and murderers are walking free. They're tired of the government encroaching on their lives. These are just normal folks, but they're not happy.

Grumpyunk said...

Time to start "The Window War" yet?

theirritablearchitect said...

"...You youngsters should exhaust the elective process before you try any other way."


Not to get cross with you on this, but, no. Just no.

I'm not allowing this to go down that road. Not with me, at least. Once someone gets the idea into their narrow little head that this whole issue, Hell, any issue, is about "the elective process," i.e. voting, about human rights, we are fucked.

Sorry to be so crude about it, but that's exactly the problem with this country right now. Too many jackasses with the mentality that others' rights are up for a vote of some sort.

Fuck that.

Mass non-compliance, and then, if someone wants to play dirty, "Cry 'Havoc', and let slip the dogs of war."


WV: tolde...I tolde, Holder.

Chad said...

What some people fail to see is, we aren't dealing with rational thinking people here. Obama is a puppet to the Tri Lateral commission bound and determined to usher in a One world govenment. All is planned, down to the smallest detail. Vote? election process? I'm done with that, our polititions have crossed the line and have went too far. Not just on this issue either. We are dealing with Power crazed, world domination centered, egotistic, evil men! The time for talk and the electoral process is over! Arm yourselves and get ready to take back our country! Our founding fathers told us to do so, in times such as these!

Anonymous said...

"Obama is a puppet to the Tri Lateral commission bound and determined to usher in a One world govenment."

No he isn't. There is no conspiracy, the Black Helicopters are not watching your every move, and take off the tinfoil hat. What you are dealing with is large group of people with similar goals who are very accomplished at organization and group think. That does not a conspiracy make.

Tam said...

"What some people fail to see is, we aren't dealing with rational thinking people here. Obama is a puppet to the Tri Lateral commission bound and determined to usher in a One world govenment. All is planned, down to the smallest detail."

Ummm...

Chad said...

Well anonymous, JFK was shot by Oswald, 9/11 was perpetrated by a bunch of misfit nomads, Pearl harbor took us completely by suprise, and our government has the most honest polititions in the world. You're a narrow minded idiot!

Anonymous said...

Fear, different Anon here, but the evidence suggests that Oswald DID shoot JFK. 9/11 Was not rocket science and frankly inevitable with the lax security in place. Pearl Harbor was not a total suprise, just a failure of arrogance and intel. And to quash the suggestion that I am some leftist jerk I will say GWB was just a president who farmed out too many details and made a few mistakes, NOT some emissary of the oil companies or slave of Dick Cheney. I hope the AWB fails, however before everyone rushes out to shoot the big, bad govt. if it passes, a few questions. 1) Who are you intending to shoot? Who will enforce this? And if its not actively inforced then why shed blood? 2) Where does the 2nd Ammendment's scope end. I personally oppose the AWB, but at what point do citizen's rights to bear arms end? If I had enough money could I get a tank? How about an anti-tank weapon? Old F-4 Phantom with full weapon load? Its not an academic question.

Chad said...

First, trying to convince of you of something you apparently will never comprehend would be pointless. The gun ban is only a small part of what's going on, for once try and do some research into the tri lateral commission, the Bilderberg group, and the CFR, open your eyes and read some news other than what's shoved down your throat by the mainstream media. I'm sure I'm wasting my time but I hate to see someone so blinded to reality. When they announce that we are to become the North American Union, then you might start to think a little different. Then again you might like it.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon #2, the AWB did not concern tanks, anti-tank weapons or F-4's. It dealt with semi-automatic weapons that several people were afraid of and the capacity of magazines for them. It also banned the importation of several weapons that were deemed to be 'assault weapons' in the misinformed opinion of politicians.

Why shoot anyone?

If they are stupid enough to repeat what they did in 1993 and pass a new AWB rest assured, the election cycle of 2010 will make the 94 election look like a small turnover.

People had a different attitude towards the AWB then and the economics of the times were much different. Also, there are different venues to disseminate information now. You no longer need to rely on the MSM to get an informed opinion of what politicians are trying to do.

Gmac

John said...

"Tri Lateral commission"

Drink!

"One world government"

Drink!

It's either a drinking game or I gotta get a tin foil hat to fit in.

Chad said...

Where do we draw the line? If our militias would have only been allowed slingshots because the modern weapons of our government during colonial times where too sophisticated, we may not be the country we are. And yes flying a 747 into skyscrapers doing manuevers they weren't physically able to do, is kinda like rocket science. And Pearl Harbor was meant to draw us into a long and lengthy war. The classified documents have been released and we knew well in advance it was coming! Oh, but you don't think for yourself, I forgot. Oh, what a waste of time and effort! I appologize for offering anything other than mainstram thinking. Go back to watching CNN and the crisis will be over soon, have a nice day!

Chad said...

Oh, this is the Bill O'Reily forum! I think I must have made a wrong turn I thought I was on a patriotic site, sorry.

Tam said...

O'Reilly is a middle-of-the-road anti-gun tool.

Out of curiosity, Chad, who do you think did bring down the towers?

Chad said...

Thank you for your time and may YHVH bless you and keep you. I made a mistake commenting here.

Anonymous said...

I was merely pointing out that while I disagree, I can understand why some mistakenly draw a line at one level of firearm. We do have to have a line drawn somewhere, just not along those lines. And I agree, pass a new AWB and watch the carnage in the elections.

As to the Pearl Harbor thing, yeah they knew an attack was comming somewhere, and thought it was no big deal, it was the Japs, what can they do? On 9/11 either half or 3/4th of the terrorists hit their intended target. I think probably only half. One world government talk is the relative of Bush stole the 2000 election talk. And who are these 'they' that are going to announce this North American Union?

Anonymous said...

Oswald did not act alone. No man with a Mannlicher-Carcaro is ever truly alone.

treefroggy said...

Now THAT was entertaining !!

TJP said...

I brought down "the towers". (I also brought down "fellowship" and "return of the king" in the same box when I moved into my new house.)

I'm also a member of the Tri-Lateral Commission. I don't who they are, but they bug me for a donation every year, so I send one. I get a window decal in exchange.

I was also on the grassy knoll, but was trimming it with a pair of hedge sheers.

And, oh yeah: I'm J. Paul Getty!

Phillip said...

Wow. This went from sane and normal conversation to outright crazy in a short time.

Guess it all matters where the line for crazy is.

theirritablearchitect said...

"I made a mistake commenting here."

Got that right...at least.

Anonymous said...

You people deserve each other! You give uneducated redneck a whole new meaning!
He was right, trying to to tell the truth to a site full of closed minded, redneck, leftist, simpletons, was a mistake!

Yosemite Sam said...

Is there a full moon tonight?

John said...

Sounds like somebody's not taking their meds.

WV:nonsigg
My entire gun collection, so far. Some day, maybe. Some day.

TJP said...

There's a full moon in DC for the next four years.

Rova said...

Just a perspective on O'Reilly:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/07/12/violetblue.DTL

Remember?

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming download. . .

B.S. philosopher said...

Nancy Pelosi seems to be telegraphing that SHE doesn't intend to bring this up and that the Obama administration or Holder hasn't discussed it with her.

I think what we have here is the Executive branch trying to squeeze the legislative by threatening to bring up something that any ninny, even Nancy Pelosi, knows is pure political dynamite.

Basically, they're running it up the flag to see who salutes...

Any congressweasel with a shred of sense in even some semi-blue districts won't...

Caleb said...

Protip: When you say stuff like this - And yes flying a 747 into skyscrapers doing manuevers they weren't physically able to do, is kinda like rocket science it generally helps to use the correct aircraft designation. The planes that hit the towers were Boeing 767s, not 747s, and were more than capable of performing the maneuvers that were necessary. Just because your friendly airline captain doesn't hang 5 G turns on you doesn't mean that the airframe is incapable of withstanding such forces.

AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE

Anonymous said...

RE: Anonymous said...
You people deserve each other! You give uneducated redneck a whole new meaning!
He was right, trying to to tell the truth to a site full of closed minded, redneck, leftist, simpletons, was a mistake!

Ahem, Masters in Accounting, open minded, centrist, intelligent (and humble), open minded, closet redneck. And WTF? you say redneck like its a bad thing.

Tam said...

I think this is the first time in my life anybody has ever used the terms "leftist" or "redneck" to refer to me.

I've been called "close-minded" before, so that's not technically a first, but up until now it's only been by pinko gun-grabbers...

That's what I get for drinking flouridated water, I guess.

Anonymous said...

And nobody saw this coming?

If you didn't then you were listening to what he said vs looking at what he did.

Give me a break. I never wanted an AR before as I was just fine shooting my mausers. But as soon as this jerk was elected, I ordered my first AR and 10 30 round mags.

Not because of anything more than I might want them later, and if nothing else I can pick up a few bucks selling them at 3 times the price when they are banned.

theirritablearchitect said...

...if nothing else I can pick up a few bucks selling them at 3 times the price when they are banned."

Sell them for what

You're miles ahead by keeping them, regardless of regulatory environment.

Anonymous said...

Hell, in case you hadn't noticed, the Scots-Cong psychiatrist called you "Yankee."

That wouldn't stand up in court.
Not even in Marion County.

wv: coletion. I don't know but it sounds unpleasant.

Anonymous said...

Are you people trying to tell me there is no Santa Claus?
Was it something I said?
I took a shower today........sheeesh.

Kelly said...

That's what I get for drinking flouridated water, I guess.

You're screwed, Tam. The Commies have contaminated your precious bodily fluids. This, of course, is why I drink only distilled water, rainwater, and pure grain alcohol.

ExistingThing said...

Wow... Does anyone mind if I get back on topic? The first Anon is right, California's AWB had dismal compliance. FAR too low for the amount of awareness about the law change that they had tried to generate. After the Right People(tm) realized that there were a lot of gun owners out there who willfully became felons, they realized that these people were probably not very interested in surrendering if ever confronted for their crime.

So for years, an AW charge was just something they tacked on to real charges. Robbery, assault, and assault weapon possession. The recent AW arrests and cases had more to do with people who felt they were within the law and had legal rifles (off list lowers, and lack of police education), but for the most part... There are a LOT of illegal "assault weapons" in Ca.

Considering how meek and mild gun owners from other states consider Californian gun owners to be, a federal AWB now should make California's compliance rate look impressive by comparison.

Ben said...

I'm truly surprised nobody else has poked fun at the notion that a new AWB is going to help stop drug cartels from getting their hands on fully automatic weapons and grenades. I mean, isn't that what the Attorney General was getting at there? Oh wait, that's how you sell a new AWB to the people. It's going to keep fully automatic weapons and grenades out of the hands of the drug cartels. Now I've convinced myself. I'm all for a new AWB now, too. Kool-Aid all around.

Oh and Kelly, nice one. You beat me to the punch.

Tam said...

Anon 7:25,

"And nobody saw this coming?"

Do I fucking look shocked to you?


(This is me, rolling my eyes...)

Roberta X said...

Um, sure ya d-- No, I can't even type it with a straight face.

Caleb said...

I was really hoping your truther would come back, I spent all day looking for information on the relative G forces that a 767 could withstand during emergency maneuvering, and then compared it to a graph of the estimated Gs that the planes that hit the towers would have encountered.

But he didn't, so that means I spent an afternoon looking at airframe stress diagrams in vain...or did I? Sigh, another day, another watchlist.

ChrisTheEngineer said...

I would not be surprised at all if they pass this kind of thing. I don't think pelosi is bright enough to see the risk, and I don't see that she would care. Holder has made it clear that he wants an AWB. One could "vote from the rooftops." It combines the above suggested voting and other activities into one.

I don't see a full-moon from here either, swamp gas maybe? Or uppity bots.

Anonymous said...

"And nobody saw this coming?"

Do I fucking look shocked to you?

Tam,

That was sarcasm. Considering the jump in sales and lead time in back orders, there are a heck of a lot of people who saw this coming.

Tam said...

"That was sarcasm."

Sorry, I must be getting touchy. I need to go lay on the Viet MacCong Doctor's couch...

rob said...

I don't know.

I think it was here on Tam's blog that I read one of the funnier things I've read, something about Bob in Accounting and his fantasy of being Mel Gibbson in Mel Gibbson Kills the English Part 2. And I can see how the thought of being out in the streets shooting can come about, all things taken into consideration.

However, I tend to agree with PDB about this all: you didn't start shooting after any other gun control laws were passed, you didn't start shooting after the last AWB, after Ruby Ridge, after Waco, or any other time that one would see people start shooting...what would be different this time?

ChrisTheEngineer said...

The two extremes are (as stated by their opponents):
1) Don't Shoot at the Government, Just Follow Orders.
2) Shoot All the Murdering JBT Bastards Now Dammit.

To paraphrase: "Shooting did not start after a series of government infringements and atrocities therefore it will never happen." Fails elementary logic, even if it turns out to be true.

What is different this time? Maybe nothing. Maybe this time is the tipping point and shooting starts.

I boldly predict that what happens will be something between 1 and 2.

Anonymous said...

Caleb,
What search parameters did you use? I did a couple of quick searches, but decided I didn't want to wade thru all the 9/11 BS to find the structual limits.

staghounds said...

My prediction, FWIW, is that there won't be any significant resistance to new gun laws. And what little resistance there is will be counterproductive.

Disobedience, sure, there will be some. But the penalties will be light when applied to otherwise decent citizens.

But historically, when it's been done through legislation, gun owners have let themselves be divided and conquered.

Anonymous said...

Damn!!! This is really hard to resist,what with TriLateral citations, a 'Tam as Liberal' accusation, and a few tinfoiler's on board. Lots of good grins, there.

And, nope, I dunno if'n anyone is gonna start poppin' caps on the AxxHolieAunties, but if one sits down and considers the logistics of actually doing so,I don't believe it'll be quite so simple a task to effect, as it is to say.

Got a list, incl local and semi-local? Got addresses? Got pictures? Got schedules? Recce'd the sites? ASO. Just some idle thinkin' here, on the theory of such doin's.

Anyway, nothing new as follows to the duly assembled , but sorta tangentially relevant:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A journalist friend referred this to me for my reaction, saying that will be the nail in the coffin for the pro-gun movement:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/us/26borders.html?emc=eta1

As always, you have my permission to FWD my reply:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Shure enuff, that article's story do make the situation out to be Wan Beeg Suck, Senor.

It will make little difference to the public that NONE of the US guns sold are actually AK-47 fully automatic military models. Nor will comparing the numbers sold by the rogue FFL dealer Inkodosian, to the total seized make a dent in the public mindlessness. That guy is the worst sort of A-hole, and should spend the rest of his life behind bars. I AM surprized that no one turned him in, long ago. But, to the uninformed,he's prolly their image of a typical gun dealer: a sleazy cad catering to criminals.

Nor will the public note that the grenades, rocket launchers, and fully auto weapons being employed by the Mexagangs are NOT available in the US. That gear is military only, and has to come from the Mex armed forces. Or, as just as likely, further south down in ex-Sandinista country. A full auto AK-47 is available there on the thriving black market for around 50USD. It shouldn't be too difficult for a drug smuggling cartel to land all they want back home.

All that kind of info is beside the point, as is the fact that 99percent-plus of the FFL licensees are EXTREMELY careful about what and to whom they sell, including 100% standards demanded by the BATF on paperwork. Even in face to face private sale, it's SOP for MY kind of folks to ask for a Driver'sL and to kinda size up WHERE and to WHOM this 'piece' might be going. But. again, that is irrelevant to either the public or government.

I see the "Mexican" issue as a stalking horse. The government there has extremely stiff regs on guns, far stricter than the NYT apparently was informed. Private ownership is essentially for the connected, and well to do. The border area has a long tradition of flouting the central Government on this issue.

But, there are considerable documented stories about the mishaps and prison time incurred by uninformed/unconnected US sportsman, who thinking that they were going 'down' for weekend of duck shooting, got nailed for heavy expenses [bribes], and some sleazy, scairt lockdown time. Guns troubles on the border are NOT new, but just have hit a NEW awareness with the PARA-military [and Military, in fact] drug gang actions. So, it will go as you have noted.

This is a wonderful 'wedge issue' for the Aunties. It is also, on the other side of the mirror, an excellent example of how well gun control laws don't work when the criminal element is so monied and influential. The whole world is their arms bazaar, including the supplies of their own armed force. What minor amount of armament they smuggle in from the US, is small potatoes compared to fresh cases of grenades supplied from the local commandant at the Army post.

As always, spin wins. I did notice that Pelosi has for the time being nixed the AWB bill, for whatever reasons. The Dems should be astute enough to realize that it could bog down the economic proposals currently being considered. But, have faith, the whole progression of Auntie wet-dreams will be brought out when the time is right and the populace at large is scared enuff. Another Columbine, a massacre in Mexico, some egregiously murderous act will make fine fodder. In the meantime, the hugely great population of extraordinarily law abiding gun owners will continue as they always have.

Well, this is the most I've written in some time, as I find that the effort of even thinking about this particular issue is now personally draining and counter-productive: my batteries are flat, or as one TAM-blogger put it, more or less: "I feel as tho I'm trying to plug a huge hole in the dike, with my thumb." The gun owners need a visibly united and nationwide voter uprising.

I continue to believe, that the ONE historically proven action, that can affect and forestall for a while the 'progress', is feet on the ground. Demonstrate by peacefully filling the National Mall, for a day or six. Politicians absolutely pay attention when mass numbers of their constituents are just a door knock away.

A few folks are now opening web site[s] for a 2nd Amendment march, a Million Man March, or what have you. I think Tam posted some links here? Lots of operational issues to be figured out.

We'll see. Gun owner's at large are like herding cats: not really interested in 'group hugs' and independent more or less by nature.

Well, really gotta go now. Group hug, tho~~~!! ;~`) ;~`)

Best, J t R
______

Warthog said...

Tam said...

Sorry, I must be getting touchy. I need to go lay on the Viet MacCong Doctor's couch...

You could lay on my couch, I have extra pillows and warm blankies and access to a number of really fine brews.

Anonymous said...

I can't help but wonder if the English colonists foresaw a time in their near future were they would rise up and fight their government. Things progressively got worse and came to a head over some shootings of citizens in the street and an attempt at government confiscation of small arms. I often of late wonder what went through the minds of many of the average people in the street as these events unfolded. Perhaps they also felt this would never happen, that they would never overthrow their government, and that they would never have to take arms and fight for their freedoms.
I'm not saying that I want to go to war with my country, and I'm not someone who takes to conspiracy theories. I know Oswald acted alone, 911 was performed by terrorist hijackers and Area 51 only houses top secret test aircraft as it always has. But I've watched the government taking steps. Many pieces of the puzzle are starting to fall into place. There are large camps all over the US that have been built and executive orders have been drawn up to take all of your freedoms away.
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm
The government has been buying up large amounts of dehydrated food to store.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=70281

Soldiers are being selected and questioned about their feelings on Martial law and firing on their fellow citizens. They are also currently being trained in "homeland missions" http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/
Several States are also pushing towards "State Sovereignty" and declaring these articles towards the US Federal government.
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2009/02/17/122853.php
These are all things that are really happening right now. Funny how none of it is making the main stream media.
-GW