Wednesday, August 07, 2013

I wonder what his screen name was on INGO?

To you suburban and rural Hoosiers:

I understand that the neighborhood around the Fairgrounds is a little scary at first glance, what with the boarded-up houses and unkempt lawns and the general Little Detroit vibe given off by portions of the nearby cityscape.

To hear some folks on the state firearms forum talk, they won't go inside I-465 in less than platoon strength, and 38th Street might as well be Route Irish. In reality, unless you are actively engaged in the unlicensed pharmaceutical business after dark, statistically speaking, it's just not that scary.

Certainly not scary enough to mandate the carriage of five guns to the State Fair.

What is that? Like, a Kel-Tec in every pocket? It's a free country and all, and I'm the last person to chastise somebody for a spare magazine and a BUG, but how can you enjoy the Wild Mouse when you're rattling and clanking more than the midway ride itself?

They'll send you to bed without your supper if they catch you.

Still, we need to get this weird "Special No-Go Zone" out of the state gun laws.

29 comments:

Boat Guy said...

I my state unless ALL the entrances to a venue are covered by metal detectors (as with our courthouses) VDZ signs do not "carry the force of law". The property owner can require you to leave if they discover you are carrying and if you fail to comply you are guilty of trespass.
Bride and I recently attended a similar event in a neighboring state and like you, a carry piece is simply part of dressing in the morning. Since this state is FAR more gun-friendly than ours, I didn't give it a thought. We got to the venue and sure enough "No weapons" was among the proscriptions. I decided I wasn't gonna comply but it did spook me a little and I was VERY conscious of carrying, especially since I was toting one of my more utilitarian pieces that doesn't conceal as well as others.
Got through the day, but I am in the middle of doing some guardhouse-lawyer research to see just what I was risking...

Scott J said...

Although it's not a mandated victim disarmament zone that I'm aware of I always struggle with what to do when at the beach.

I think swimming with my Guardian .380 in my pocket might be a bit much.

Although years ago I was on a river rafting trip and wore my SP-101 in my pocket the whole time. Even when I was sent over the side into neck deep water to pull the raft to shore.

I detail stripped the gun when we got back and hosed all the bits down with CLP for an overnight soak.

The dunked rounds I set aside and test fired at my next range trip. All functioned fine.

Tam (remotely) said...

Boat Guy,

No signs or metal detectors needed at the State Fair, it's in the Indiana Code right next to schools, courthouses, and the secured areas of airports.

John Block said...

So, to quote John Rambo, "Col., you taught me that the mind is the weapon, everything else is a tool." So your state fair only allows brainless idiots in, eh? How'd you and Miz Roberta get in, cuz neither one a ya be brainless....and prolly smarter than the average St. Employee! (Wouldn't be hard, back here in Mordor...)

Paul said...

Yep. I'm pretty sure our fair is in the same district. It will be starting this week so I hope to get there this weekend.

Anytime the Police have control of a venue they do there best to ensure only they have guns as we all know, they want to go home at night. Not so much for you.

wizardpc said...

For safety reasons, State Police asks that no one carries a gun on fairgrounds property.

I wonder if that includes the State Police themselves...

HAHA who am I kidding. Of course they exempt themselves. They're safe, and professional enough. The rest of you guys, though? TOTES DANGEROUS!

Tam said...

Paul,

"Anytime the Police have control of a venue..."

The police do not "have control" of the State Fair. The regulation has nothing to do with "the police".

wizardpc said...

I will add, though, that I am proud of the way the staties handled it. The guy was clearly in violation of state law, but also was clearly (to them) not a threat, so they asked him to follow the law rather than calling in SWAT.

Tam said...

wizardpc,

"HAHA who am I kidding. Of course they exempt themselves."

"They" do no such thing.

Indiana administrative code specifies "This rule does not apply to a federal, state, or local law enforcement officer or to a person who has been employed or authorized by the state fair commission to provide security protection and services during the annual state fair."

Tam said...

wizardpc,

"I will add, though, that I am proud of the way the staties handled it."

Further, the IAC bit in question specifically mandates confiscation of the gun, and they let him keep all five.

The Staties exhibited more common sense than Five Gun Fred, for a change.

Bubblehead Les. said...

Just curious. I'm assuming that the Speedway is a GFZ? Private Property? Also, how about the Convention Centers and the Arenas? I'm asking because some of us are planning to go to NRA Convention in Indy next year, and we don't wish to have Long Talks with the IMPD.

Though we'll be more than happy to buy you and Bobbie Adult Beverages while in town, of course. Pistols in Bars okay? Or is it a Business by Business situation, like here in Ohio?

Tam said...

Convention center should be fine.

Bars are fine.

"No Guns" signs have no legal weight, although the owner could ask you to leave. I don't know of any "no guns" signs at any of the places I frequent.

Motor-T said...

To be fair, if you're going to carry a Kel-Tec, you should probably carry 4-5 of them that way you'll probably have one that'll work.

azmountaintroll said...

Right, he probably brought the whole bubble pack just to be sure.

Woodman said...

"The Staties exhibited more common sense than Five Gun Fred, for a change"

That is an awesome Mafia name.

Frank W. James said...

Tam: I think if you check the same rule that covers the Indiana State Fair, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway also includes Lucas Stadium as "NO GUN" zones in our fair state, so if there are events during the NRA convention at Lucas that could spell trouble for some...

All The Best,
Frank W. James

Tam (remotely) said...

Frank,

The weapons at the fair thing is in IAC Title 80, Sec. 4-4-4. Title 80 of the IAC deals solely with the State Fair Commission, so if it is indeed prohibited to tote at Lucas Oil Stadium in the IAC, it's not prohibited in that section. A search of the administrative code returns no hits on "Lucas" at all, so I'm not finding it yet.

It's certainly not mentioned in IC Title 35, where firearm criminal code is all located.

The NFL prohibits guns at games, but event organizers can set their own rules.

Woodman said...

"The NFL prohibits guns at games, but event organizers can set their own rules."

Unless you are a player.

Anonymous said...

Hey that wasn't Dr. Pizza was it?

Oh wait, he's just a 4-Weapon Master

Frank W. James said...

Did the Indianapolis Motor Speedway show up on that search? Because I know they have the same rule and it was my understanding Lucas Oil stadium was added to it...

All The Best,
Frank W. James

Frank W. James said...

It might be a city of Indianapolis code instead of state reg but I know it exists for both IMS and Lucas...

All The Best,
Frank W. James

Tam said...

Frank,

I searched the Administrative Code (http://www.in.gov/legislative/iac/) for the Speedway rule and didn't find it. I know it's not mentioned in the criminal code.

I'll ask Shootin' Buddy if he knows.

wizardpc said...

"They" do no such thing.

I meant exempting themselves from the notion that carrying guns at the state fair is inherently unsafe. But your point is well taken.

Tam (remotely) said...

"It might be a city of Indianapolis code instead of state reg but I know it exists for both IMS and Lucas..."

If it's city code, it would have been shot down by the latest preemption bill.

Now, a private property owner like the Speedway can post their property as they like, but it would be interesting to see Lucas go to court since it is both owned and operated by public entities.

I'm personally not feeling very guinea pig-ish, though. ;)

Frank W. James said...

Well, the interesting thing about IMS is you won't find any posting at their entrances about guns being prohibited, but I witnessed many years ago when I was working the Speedway as a journalist 5 State Troopers take a guy down when one spotted a gun on the man's belt. He said "I got a permit" and their collective response was "Not Here You Don't!" and they hauled his ass off into the sunset all cuffed up.

In talking with cops since then it's pretty much acknowledged it's a NO-NO at IMS and then more recently in visiting with some Indy area po-po I heard the same thing about Lucas so it will be more than interesting to find out what the deal is?

Especially with next year's NRA show coming up...

All The Best,
Frank W. James

Roberta X said...

IMS is a privately-owned venue; they can make any rules they want -- and Speedway being something of a "Company Town," you can bet the local police are only too happy to help enforce it. Apparently they're now doing some version of the TSA Grope and even poking though cars.

Lucas Oil Stadium...I dunno. The Irsays treat the thing like a private fiefdom, but it was built with our money. I think I'd want a real shiny lawyer and a wheelbarrow full of cash to pay him if I tangled with that mess.

Matt G said...

Huh. So Texas wins on this Who Has The Better Gun Laws issue. Normally we don't come out looking better, compared with Indiana. http://www.bigtex.com/sft/guestinfo/bringemon.asp

And the State Fair Grounds are in a pretty damn poor neighborhood in East Dallas, too. I STRONGLY recommend using the Park 'N' Ride train from Elsewhere to the front gate, or to park on the fenced-in-State Fairground lot for $12. (Last time I parked there. Heck, it may be $20, now.)

Ed said...

As the the old joke goes...

Q:What was the guy carrying five guns afraid of?
A: Not a damn thing.

In Florida, the state Legislature put some teeth in the firearms regulation state preemption law two years ago, resulting in the "No Weapons" signs at the Florida State Fair to be changed to "No Unlawful Weapons". How many gunfights broke out in the past two Florida State Fairs after the signs changed? None.

http://tbo.com/ap/politics/you-can-now-carry-your-gun-at-florida-state-fair-358920

Tam said...

Ed,

Indiana has a very robust preemption law. The thing with the State Fair isn't affected by the preemption law because the State Fair gun ban is specifically written into the state code.