Wednesday, July 02, 2008

Suicidal stats.

So the touchy-feelies from the "soft" (read "pseudo") sciences are going to be studying the new, handgun-drenched streets of DC to see if the suicide rate climbs now that all those icky handguns will be free to roam at will, exerting their psychic controls over the hapless citizenry.

I'm with Sebastian on this. I don't think you'll see any measurable difference. And the reason for that is because of the seriousness of the gun itself.

Eating a bullet, like taking a header off a 20+ story building or playing stop-the-locomotive, isn't something that folks do to make their boyfriend pay attention. It's not a "cry for help", like taking a couple extra Thorazines with your Beefeater and then hopping on the phone with poison control. People who smoke a gun barrel are pretty serious about checking out of the net, and if a gun isn't available, they're off to the nearest tall building or freight crossing. Look at the Land of the Rising Sun. The only guns over there fire plastic pellets, and that doesn't stop them from whacking themselves with the same amount of industry and efficiency that they put into making Honda Accords.

18 comments:

Turk Turon said...

The gun-banners have traditionally been reluctant to discuss suicide, even though about 55% of annual gun deaths in the U.S. are suicide. That's because of the many counter-examples, Japan being the most compelling.

The Bradys like to concentrate on homicide statistics. The U.S. definitely has a homicide problem, but not a gun-homicide problem. The stats show that even if we in the U.S. were somehow able to eliminate all gun homicide (not just handgun homicide - all gun homicide), the resulting homicide rate, the number of homicides per hundred thousand population, would STILL be higher than the overall homicide rate of most of the countries of western Europe, to which we are so often compared. So obviously, even if the Bradys got their way, the U.S. would still have a homicide problem. Plus, there would be a hundred million or so more disarmed victims for thugs to attack.

theirritablearchitect said...

Strangely, hanging oneself is quite popular in Japan as well, and people do it in serious numbers in the forest at the base of Mount Fuji too. Sometimes years pass before people are found after having taken a walk and never returned.

theirritablearchitect said...

turk,

I really have to wonder about all the comparisons in numbers being done with western Europe. Honestly, I think they are higher than we are led to believe.

The British Home Office, if I understand their procedure correctly, will not report any death by use of a firearm until the crime is solved. That is, they've got to convict someone of crime first.

I think there is a serious coverup problem with most of the rest of the world, as firearms, (preaching to the choir here) are far easier to acquire, anywhere in the world, than our glorious leaders are willing to let anyone else know.

I think there are some notable exceptions to this rule, Japan is an example, though they've been on a serious upswing in gun-related fatalities by percentage recently.

staghounds said...

They are happy to talk about the suicide numbers, they just lump thrm into "gun deaths" and leave it to the curious researcher to root through the stats to divide homicide, suicide, and accident.

Just as they call all those killed by bullets under 19 "children", not calling attention to the parabolic graph results by actual age.

I haven't done a close survey, but I'd bet that well over half the gun deaths are black males 17-28 (homicide) and white males over 60 (suicide).

Suicide is the private concern of the person who decides to check out. It's not society's concern to limit the means.

Dr. StrangeGun said...

The japanese unfortunately have taken to self-disposal with a bit too much efficiency; there's been a rash lately of taking a permanent nap via a particular farm pesticide that, while certain, also leaves the attending medical facility to deal with a dying body full of phosgene burps.

*erp* Oh, is someone mowing the lawn? *thump*

Anonymous said...

Hey, I say if a person wants to remove him/herself from the gene pool, I'd say let him/her have at it. Who are we to take away a person's freedom of choice? Besides, that's nature's way of removing the weak.

Turk Turon said...

B&N:
I believe you are correct about the way the British Home Office reports homicides.

In addition to that, the FBI's Uniform Crime Report uses a category called "non-negligent homicide" to calculate homicide rates. This is the total of felonious homicides and self-defense homicides. This is done for reasons of expediency: many homicides are not classified as "self-defense" until a grand jury or trial jury decides, which may be months, or even years, after the fact.

But the combination of the British and American methods does tend to exaggerate the difference.

Anonymous said...

"...icky handguns will be...exerting their psychic controls over the hapless citizenry."

Yeah, they do that.

Anonymous said...

Aren't Accords actually made in the US now?

Other than that, spot on :) I agree wholeheartedly. If a gun aint around, there are plenty of other ways to check out.

Tam said...

Last time I checked, Accords for the North American market are made here, as are Japanese-market Honda Inspires (the home name for the bigger N.A. Accord.) Accords elsewhere have moved to a smaller platform.

Johnny said...

There's something out-of-whack with UK homicide stats but I haven't been able to figure out what it is. I wrote an essay about it years ago, available here http://dvc.org.uk/sketches/homicide.html

Anonymous said...

the suicide rate is where the anti-gunners get the bogus "you're more likely to be killed by your own gun" schtick. this conjures the image of the the gun owner being incompetent in the shooting of his/her firearm, or the bad guy (or girl) getting it first. they refuse to make a distinction between gun owners and people who use guns to commit suicide.

John A said...

I think if someone looks carefully, they'll notice that over half of successful suicides are accomplished by firearm, not so much with attempts. Most other forms take time (even deliberate strangulation takes several minutes, drugs may take hours - and most hangings are strangulations rather than neck snapping/seperation). The longer still alive after starting, the longer to be found and rescued. Or, of course, stop the attempt yourself.

John A said...

Oh, and if you want to commit suicide by jumping off soemthing high, "high" is nine or more stories.

Driving into a bridge abutment? Not so good, either.

And on and on...

theirritablearchitect said...

Johnny Pate,

Thanks for giving some creedence to my suspicions.

The whole bit that we (that'd be the US) are somehow unique to the phenomenon of "gun deaths" has never made much sense to me, as the tools for implementing such things are pretty easy to come by. It stands to reason that the numbers should be higher.

I'm going to read your piece on the subject.

Anonymous said...

Another thing the anti-gunners don't like people to notice is that about three quarters of the murder victims in this country are criminals (typically involved with drugs). I saw an article earlier in the year saying that it hit over ninety percent in Baltimore during a gang war over turf. Eliminating the suicides and the criminals murdered by other criminals, and you're down to about 3000 or 4000 per year.

Anonymous said...

Nevermind the gender wonkiness of suicide stats.

The methods are sharply differentiated by sex, men tend towards methods that do not allow to second chances.

Also men commit suicide in ways that aren't always obvious. e.g. Car vs. Bridge Abutment (that'd be "drunk driving", true, he was drunk but somehow drunk women rarely pick enormous concrete objects to slow their vehicle from 90mph)

Then there's hunting/gun cleaning "accidents" , which seem to a have a component of the local law enforcement going "he had life insurance, 3 kids and a wife? Geez looks like a clear cut accident to _Me_ " etc...

Zendo Deb said...

Canada has fewer guns per capita, but a higher suicide rate per capita. If guns causes suicide, why would that be? Could it be that guns don't cause people to commit suicide?

The number 1 method of suicide in Canada is hanging. Guns are third after poisoning, which includes drug overdose. Obviously now that our friends to the north have gun control under control with their registry and all, they need to institute rope control. That should do it.