Tuesday, January 17, 2012

I'm still on the fence...

I want an M&P 22 as a trainer for my CCW gun. I am not heartened by the fact that it's apparently another piece of Umarex-sourced flimsiness, but since I don't think anybody's making a deuce-deuce conversion for the M&P 9, I gotta roll with what I can get.

Caleb announced he was doing a stress test, but it turned out to be 300 rounds. Okay, that lets me know that the gun will last one or two range trips. Thanks, Caleb.

Seriously, I don't think that my Ruger 22/45 has ever fired less than 180 rounds before going back into the range bag (I have six magazines for it.) I accept that this gun is probably not going to be as robust as the generally bomb-proof Ruger; a steel tube gun with a small reciprocating bolt has big advantages in the durability department over a gun with a large-but-lightly-constructed reciprocating slide, it's just the nature of the beast. Okay, I can deal with that; I can deal with replacing a rimfire trainer every five or even four years from wearing it out with many tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition. I can't afford to replace one every year or two.

I've got half a mind to pretend I'm some kind of journalist and write Smith for a T&E gun and put ten thousand rounds through the thing and see what breaks.

34 comments:

ZerCool said...

You're not real media, so quit being presumptuous. :-p

All kidding aside, I fiddled with the display model at the NRA show and couldn't find any appreciable difference in quality between the M&P22 and the M&P(n) on the peg next to it. I wouldn't mind having one of my own but it's far down the list of priorities.

Pakkinpoppa said...

I miss my 22/45. Shoulda kept it. Only quibble I had, I could never keep the front sight screw tight, always had to tighten it up after the 4th mag (which was all I had).

Have a Mark 1 now, and while I do like it, the new production mags with plastic floorplates leave me less than impressed. Oh well, at least they are current production.

And 300 rounds in a range trip...with a 22 that'd be about average, after that the thumbs get a little bit sore.

Missed out on a 22/45 SS 4" last fun show I went to, didn't have the funds on me.

AuricTech said...

Hey, if GunsAmerica carries the M&P22, why don't you ask Paul Helinski for a T&E gun? I'm sure he'll be happy to oblige.... >;-)

wv = woryness: I'm not wasting any woryness over Paul Helinski's foolishness in picking a fight with people who buy pixels by the barrel.

Robb Allen said...

I'd suggest using Guns America to purchase it rather than interfering with Paul Helinski's business model and asking S&W for a T&E.

I mean, it's not like us M&P owners are going to listen to see if you like it so they can consider picking one up themselves or anything. At least, that's Mr. Helinski's view.

Mine? I'm interested in one, but I do have a 22/45 and I'm curious to know if it would be something worth adding or not.

I promise you I'd not argue with you about the trigger on it too! ;)

Fred said...

S&W says a shipping label is inbound, so hopefully it gets worked out.

plblark said...

My biggest issue with the M&P 22 pistol is the safety. My M&P 9 doesn't have one and my holsters aren't molded for one.

My second issue is that I'd rather S&W make a .22 conversion kit so I can use as many components of my carry gun while having cheaper ammo for practice.

The likelihood of that happening: slim

TomcatTCH said...

I don't understand it. If Advantage Arms, *cough, spit* Ciener *cough spit*, and Tactical Solutions can make .22lr conversion kits that don't have the failure rate of the Umarex crap, why in the world do these damn companies keep going to Umarex?

Tam said...

Profit margins, no doubt.

And that's not a dirty word. I'm all about the gun company keeping the shareholders happy and making money and staying in business.

The tough part of the balancing act is doing it without over-cheapening the product. I'm reminded of the (perhaps apocryphal) story of Henry Ford's engineers poring through junkyards, trying to find out which parts on the Model T were excessively over-built.

Bubblehead Les. said...

TomcatTCH : It's Capitalism. Just checked the Smith site, the MSRP on the M+P 22 is $419. So, let's add in some discounting, one could probably find one for around $300-$325. But if an aftermarket company gives you a Top End for $250, Smith doesn't make a penny. And Umarex Pot Metal guns are cheap for Smith to have made for them, rather than to do so in House. So, there's probably some sort of Proprietary Gizmo in the Smith M+P that some after market company would have to pay Big Bucks to get the License to reproduce, so it's not worth it at this time.

However, as of this minute, 9mm is cheap. One can get some American Eagle FMJ 124 grain for $12-13 a box of 50 from Cheaper than Dirt, for example. Personally Tam, rather than spend your hard earned Shekels on a Pot Metal Trainer, just spend the money on Training Ammo and maybe a Blue Gun for Weapon Drills.

Unless an old Colt Woodsman or High Standard can get close to the feel of your M+P, of course. But those are always nice to have. Tam, I just don't see wasting money on a junk Clone, especially since you have the Ruger 22/45. Just not Cost Effective.

YMMV, of course.

Blackwing1 said...

I've got Springer 1911's as my go-to guns, and blew an inappropriate amount of money on a Kimber for an alternate carry-gun. I've been using a .22/45 (an old one, with a decent trigger) for rimfire training, but I've been looking at buying a Ciener or Kimber conversion kit.

What's your opinion on those, if I may ask? I've got an old Norinco 1911 that I'd probably just put it on and leave it on. I see that Tomcat (@ 9:44) apparently has a low opinion of them, so I was wondering if you share it?

Tam said...

I had a Ciener upper that more-or-less lived on my old Kimber frame for years. Loved it.

They're a little fussy, compared to a centerfire gun, but it's not that big a deal. (And hey, bonus! Malf drills! ;) )

JD Rush said...

Wasn't Apex looking into a topend conversion? That cured my want for the MP22. Did buy the cheezy airgun MP. Works more than 300 shots.

Anonymous said...

I wish there was a conversion kit. Then, I could use the same trigger. Seems I recall reading somewhere that the M&P22 was just a P22 with a new exterior.

-SayUncle

Tam said...

Unc,

"Seems I recall reading somewhere that the M&P22 was just a P22 with a new exterior."

There's a fair amount of mechanical similarity, but the M&P goes with an Al slide instead of Zamak (and does away with the stress risers caused by the FCS) plus it also gets rid or the slide-mounted safet, another piece on the P22 that frequently caused problems on high-mileage Walthers, so I'm not entirely without hope, here.

Tam said...

"...gets rid or the slide-mounted safet..."

Wow, it's like I typed that with my nose... :o

Caleb said...

The M&P in question is a rental gun, so my paltry 300 rounds were in addition to whatever the customers are burning through it. It's a very popular rental gun, and it is still ticking.

Robb Allen said...

Typing with your nose sounds like fun. Let me try....

petedrf piperf opickjedf as pec kj of piuvkd peoppers

That *IS* fun. Now, let's try typing with my forehead!

About three things I was absolutely positive. First, Edward was a vampire. Second, there was part of him — and I didn't know how potent that part might be — that thirsted for my blood. And third, I was unconditionally and irrevocably in love with him.

Huh... that was odd.

Jake (formerly Riposte3) said...

Robb, your internets is in the mail.

It's a good thing I had just finished lunch. Chunky soup through the nose would not be fun.

North said...

Robb: I think you typed with your ass.

North said...

No. I'm sure of it.

Tam said...

I'm still LOL'ing. :D

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

Dammit, Robb!

Sigivald said...

That one's been going around Facebook for over a week.

So I think someone else already claimed that Internets.

SGB said...

Damn that is hilarious.

Evyl Robot Michael said...

I have heard a vicious rumor from a quite reputable source that S&W does in fact have a conversion kit in the works. Since they're not likely to have kits for the .45 frame or the compact models, Jennifer and I may have to buy new M&Ps if they ever release the .22 kit.

Oh, and Robb - That was easily the funniest thing I've read this week.

Blackwing1 said...

Thanks for the answer, Tam.

And then I just HAD to keep scrolling, and durn near choked on my sandwich when I got to the second half of Rob's post.

Fred said...

Given the low serial number and earlyish manufacturing date on ours (at work, but I think it's March or May of last year,) there's a good chance that it's an early issue that's already been worked out, much like all the springs they replaced in my M&P15-22 when I blew it up last year. We'll see what they say when it comes back.

Old NFO said...

Rob Wins... :-)

T.Stahl said...

I've been stress testing my Hämmerli x-esse (aka SIG Trailside) for almost six years now. 32,221 rds later I'm using the third trigger bar spring (a silly piece of flat wire, haven't tried to improvise one from a paper clip) and the slide stop works only occasionally (which is great for tap-rack-drills and detecting 'flinching' newbies).

God, Gals, Guns, Grub said...

I'm still chuckling...

Dann in Ohio

Anonymous said...

Wait, that begs the question of why Robb even KNOWS that?

I had to get a teenaged female to intrepret, because I assumed that it was something about those vampire movies the teenaged girls get all worked up about.

Robb is really a teenaged girl?

DaddyBear said...

I've got an S&W 22-A1, and I'm finally working the last of the bugs out of it. It's got about 2000 rounds through it, and it runs well as long as you slap it around when you load the magazine and feed it Remington golden bullets that were hand crafted by angels wearing sweaters knitted from the finest unicorn fluff.

TomcatTCH said...

Tam & Bubblehead Les:

True no doubt. And I suppose like many guns, most of them won't be shot much, and will never approach death via round count.

Kind of makes me wish they sold a "pro" version.

Anonymous said...

For giggles, I bought a used Kimber conversion slide for my GC.

Surprisingly, it eats and poops happily using whatever cheap feed is available.

I'm old and round and slow, so the lack of a slide lock at the 10 count is not a knockout for me.

In other news, I shoot the MKIII 22/45 much more than anything else in the stable these days. I liked the first one so much, I bought the company. :) Let me try that again: ...I bought its longer barreled brother, just to...um...compensate.