Thursday, August 28, 2008


So I've got a bit of a Troofer infestation in my comments section. This one claims (obtusely) to be a Navy SEAL, but isn't going out of his way to dispel the rumor that a seal is a small aquatic mammal that balances balls on its nose.

Do you know why I have no effing respect for a Troofer like this one? Let me tell you why:

If you really and truly believe that eight goddam years ago the federal government conspired to cold-bloodedly murder nearly four thousand Americans on live TeeWee in the middle of downtown New York Frickin' City and then covered it up, why are you just flapping your gums on the intarw3bz instead of taking the fight to the frickin' enemy (as defined by you)?

And then you have the chutzpah to threaten people in my comment section? Pardon me if I think your threats are slightly less credible than Bigfoot stories. You don't have the stones to shoot a BB gun at the Trilateral Commission and their space lizard overlords and then you want me to quail in fear at your vague ninja skills?


Go whine about the Black Helicopters someplace else, loserboy.


J.R.Shirley said...

Dolt. I should be in the area at least until December, if anonymouse wants to make an appearance...

Anonymous said...

Sadly, there are a lot of people like that in the firearms industry.
I've also been told it was a Mossad plot, and that all the Jews in the Twin Towers were warned and left an hour earlier.
Until two years ago,I worked with a rather colorful gent whose son was lost in the towers collapse. Both father and son are/were Jews. I do the only thing I can do with these TriLateralist and Black Helicopter types, which is agree politely, if half-heartedly, and avoid them like the plague thereafter.
Odd, isn't it, that both extremes of the American political spectrum act so much alike?
Conspiracy theorists, like an old Prof of mine at U of Hartford, making utter asses of themselves over the CIA's assasination of Kennedy, laid the groundwork for this mania. Or maybe the Roswell people.
Small minds terrified of the universe's randomness. Wanting to believe someone is in control, someone they can expose and bring down.
Do you think the situation might be better if we still taught logic and scientific method in the schools?

Anonymous said...

Man, that Stieger guy is an idjit. I was 30 miles from Ground Zero when the planes hit. I couldn't see with my eyes, but I saw it on the TeeWee, but my parents live a mile-and-a-half from the towers and they saw everything. My brother works for the DOD at the Pentagon (sorry, I can't reveal any names for security reasons) and he saw the plane hit. Luckily he wasn't in that part of the building. So to the idjits like Stieger with their conspiracy theories, tell it to my family, who were there and saw it happen. I didn't have contact with my parents for two weeks after it happened. And for what it's worth, I AM an architect and I know that it doesn't just take explosives to bring down a tower. The burning jet fuel was enough to weaken the steel structure enough to cause a uniform collapse of the steel on the floor where the heat was the most intense. These idjits don't understand that the structure wasn't designed to withstand an impact load like the 20-some-odd stories above the floors where the planes hit,dropping 14 feet, and hitting the floor below. When all that weight came crashing down, that was more than the remaining structure could handle, and it all pancaked down from there, pulverizing and atomizing everything on the way down.

These conspiracy theorists are like the Liberals, never letting the facts get in the way of their personal beliefs.

Don said...

Are you sure? Rosie says fire can't melt steel.

Anonymous said...

Don Gwinn,

She's right know, the oxiding reaction can't melt steel. It's the heat from that reaction that acutally melts the steel. :>

Dr. StrangeGun said...

Conspiracy theorists want to feel important, and they do so by trying to make other people think they know something special.

It's like a kindergartener running around the playground taunting "I know something you don't know!"

Well, young kindergarteners... you've raised the ire of the teachers now, and you've been metaphorically spanked. Cry it out and sit quietly or we'll tell your parents about your behaviour.

Anonymous said...

"Conspiracy theorists want to feel important, and they do so by trying to make other people think they know something special."

I conclude on the evidence that these 9/11 people are spectacular fools, at best.

But I'll tell you what: psychological analyses of this sort of thing always leave me cold and mean. I put up with a lot of that sort of bullshit through the 1990's when I did "know something special", and the Clinton ass-lickers from Usenet to The Washington Post used to run that jazz on me and a lot of other good and smart people who paid attention to detail that everyone else sneered-off without knowing what they were talking about.

According to the facts of the case as officially stated, there is no way in the world that Vince Foster shot himself in Ft. Marcy Park with that Colt .38.

Wanna know what I'm suggesting?

Stick to the facts.

Anonymous said...

And for what it's worth, I used to post comments under my name 'Wai'. I'm an Asian, White-collared redneck.

Asians are "yellow"
= OrangeNeck.

Hope the Conspiracy theorists don't look too deeply into that one. Duh.

Anonymous said...

The truly amazing thing about the Troofers is that while they're claiming 9/11 was some sort of dark Machiavellian conspiracy orchestrated by President Bush in order to deprive us of our civil liberties...

...they're also saying, with a straight face, that Bush is too stupid to find his own ass even with both hands and Dick Cheney helping him out with a flashlight and an ass map.

You'd think one of those claims would cancel out the other, wouldn't you?

--Wes S.

BobG said...

You must have left your Idgit Magnet on, I guess.

staghounds said...

I have the same thought about the anti abortion people.

Except for Rudolf, who actually acted as if he believed abortion was murder. The rest of them, like the truthers, prefer a cause.

(Direct action doesn't have to be violent, but candlelight vigils are a pretty weak response to mass murder if that's what you think is going on. Cough up some cash and pay women not to have abortions, if that's what you want to happen. Buy the malpractice insurance companies and refuse to insure the doctors. )

At least the abolitionists and Carry Nation acted on their beliefs.

Mark said...

Gnnnf. Troofers give me brain-hives. I was advised not to visit Ground Zero on a saturday, as that's when the Troofers flock. Which would have made me break out in violence.

I'll be there paying my respects on the 11th this year. Gh0d help any placard-waving numbskull I cross paths with. It takes *ages* to get troofer out of one's fist.

Anonymous said...

A huge downside to our culture and government today is that it allows, even encourages, stupid to prosper.
Makes you ill, doesn't it?

Dr. StrangeGun said...

"But I'll tell you what: psychological analyses of this sort of thing always leave me cold and mean."

Well, we're in the middle of an intellectual war... cold and mean is probably better than warm, fuzzy, and complacent.

"conspiracy theorist" in the sense I meant is someone who tenaciously clings to something provably false. I would have stuck to truthers but I had the chemtrail and moon landing deniers on my mind as well. Maybe there should be a stronger word for these folk; as it is having a theory about a conspiracy at all puts you in the same category just by rote definition. Maybe we can call them reality deprived?

Anonymous said...

Anyone else that think it would be fun to use a version of Morgan Freemans line from "The Dark Knight"?
His response to someone that claims to know the truth: "Let me get this straight: You think that your client, one of the wealthiest, most powerful men in the world, is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands. And your plan is to blackmail this person?"

These people claim that there is a massive conspiracy involving all of the government, that would stop at nothing, including massmurder, to achieve their goals, and who can cover up any evidence of this to stop the truth from coming out.

And their plan to stop this huge and evil conspiancy is by typing comments on the internet...

Anonymous said...

"...cold and mean is probably better than warm, fuzzy, and complacent."

Hey: that's where I live.

The most heartwarming cultural moment I've had in longer than I can remember was when Don Imus said, "I hate everything. I hate everybody. I hate everything about everybody."

Now, it's not quite true in my own case, but if you quote me on that, I'll lie.

Mark said...

I read on that Major Caudill USMC (Ret). had seen classified documents saying the CIA was funding Troofers to be pointedly and noisily stupid in public to improve the government's image by being obviously wonko.

So that's obviously the truth, I read it on the Internet. There's no YouTube video yet, but when there is one there'll be helicopters in it. Black ones. And my word verification is "gclgeitf" which is obviously code. Yeah.

Ken said...

Some Troofer left--twice--a voluminous cut-n-paste on my memorial post for Leroy Homer (first officer of United 93). Classless, gutless turds.

The Raving Prophet said...

I still have one question that the "troofers" have completely ignored.

You claim that the government killed four airliners worth of people, crashing one into the ground, two into buildings, presumably losing the fourth in the Bermuda Triangle, and lofting a missile into the Pentagon. Thousands of other people were killed. They did this with malice aforethought with the pure intention of using it to start wars in not one, but TWO other nations, killing many other thousands of our own people and an untold number of others.

If they're that murderous, how on God's green earth are you people still drawing breath? If they do all that to come up with a reason to start a war to kill yet MORE people, why haven't the folks who developed "Loose Change" died in car accidents? Why hasn't Rosie O' Donnell died from a heart attack? Why have they done such a crappy job of covering things up?

It just fails the sniff test. The government isn't going to be absolutely secure leading up to such an act (with the hundreds of people who had to be willing to join in this plan beforehand, Bush himself didn't jack the planes) and then just let it be shouted from the rooftops afterwards. The very fact that there are people in high visibility places still on this side of the dirt tells me that the Troofer claim is BS.

The Troofers are nothing but cowards. If all that really did occur, I want to know why they haven't marched on DC with shotguns, pitchforks, and torches instead of just demanding answers from heartless murderers who have dodged their deeds for years.

John S said...

Let me offer yet another structural refutation of troofers.

There are other countries in the world, and many of them don't like us. Some of those have competent intelligence organizations, money, and the will to use them to embarrass or otherwise damage the US. It is, in their perceptions, in their national interests to take the US down a peg or two.

Yet there have been no "show and tell" events at the UN. Der Speigel hasn't published all the dirt. Drudge hasn't gotten a sniff.

Motivated, competent, well funded intelligence services seem unable to find one weak link to exploit to reveal the Troof.

Maybe all of our enemies and all of our allies have joined in the conspiracy. But I don't think that very likely.

Anonymous said...

Its a very eery feeling coming to a gun blog, of all places, and finding more of the same old propagandist BS. The labeling and subsequent vehement attacking of the 'Troofers' here reminds me of the labeling and vehement attacking of 'gun nuts' in the comments sections of the Sacramento Bee or the Chicago Sun-Times articles. I suppose I'll be labeled a 'Troofer' as well for pointing this out, doesn't matter what I think - but it makes the 'anti-Troofers' feel better. Very eery indeed. Listen to yoursevles...

Tam said...


You believe the Fed.Gov coldbloodedly murdered almost 4,000 of your fellow Americans on live TV and is now covering it up, right?

What are you doing about it?

If your answer is "nothing", I don't believe I want you on my side for anything else, either. I mean, if that isn't enough to set you off, what is?

Anonymous said...

a lot of shit happened on 9/11

as far as the pentagon is concerned i have actual knowledge that it was an airliner.

i was there that day and for a year following

i have seen the plane parts in the building and know the few people who actually saw the plane

the bodies and parts in the temporary morgue did not come from a "missile"

maybe the new york buildings were controlled demolitions and then bush decided to fly a plane into the pentagon so there would be some evidence to refute the troofers...dunno...but the pentagon was a plane

Anonymous said...

"You believe the Fed.Gov coldbloodedly murdered almost 4,000 of your fellow Americans on live TV and is now covering it up, right?"

Did I say that? Or are you reading that into what I did say?

"What are you doing about it?"

Exactly what you and everyone else is doing about it. Ask yourself the same question. If your answer is 'nothing' then you're fooling yourself. It affected how everyone thinks, even you.

"If your answer is "nothing", I don't believe I want you on my side for anything else, either."

What I'm doing is my business, just like what you're doing is yours. Granted, I have spent almost no time reading your blog so I'm probably jumping to conclusions here, but from this particular incident I'm not sure I'd want to be on your side. Besides, I'm ultimately on my own side, as is everyone in the end. That's the meaning of 'individual'.

"I mean, if that isn't enough to set you off, what is?"

Again, just because you don't see bullets flying doesn't mean someone hasn't been set off. What did it do to you, and what are you doing about it?

My intention is not to engage you on the facts, fallacies, or philosophies of the "Troofers," merely to point out that the labeling and deriding is exactly the same tactics that the Brady's use against us. Think about that.

Ken said...

Logical fallacy, .horizon. Unlike the Bradys, we have plenty of facts to back up the refutation of the Troofers. Persisting in distortion and outright lies in the face of overwhelming evidence is what gets Troofers labeled and derided...just like it does the gun-grabbers.

Thanks for playing, though.


Anonymous said...

Excellent point, Oldmoblogger. I stand somewhat corrected.

Still, the whole labeling and deriding thing sets off my alarms, even if it appears deserved. If you think about it, I think you'll come to the conclusion that its better not even to travel that path.

Oh, and as for the "Thanks for playing" jab, as my Drill Sergeant used to say, "Don't thank me private, thank your recruiter." I'll leave you to your game.

Tam said...

"Labeling and Deriding" is the whole schtick here at VFTP. As I've told people before, if sarcasm, sch├Ądenfreude, and mockery isn't your cup of tea, this will probably strike you as a mean-spirited, sucky blog. Thankfully, it's a big intarw3b.

Anonymous said...


Thank you, now it makes perfect sense. As I said, I've not read your blog before and apparently I've jumped to the wrong conclusion. Not the first time I've done that and most assuredly not the last. I apologize for any offense I have given. Newb mistake - please forgive.

Its funny, that simple explanation shuts off the alarms and makes the eery feeling go away. Thank you.