Wednesday, October 21, 2009

Count - Pointercount.

The "Metrocons" discussion that started here continues here.

I find it interesting that some took it as a term that was prima facie derogatory and was referring to nominal conservatives who were anti-RKBA, whereas I took it to be merely descriptive, and to refer to conservatives who just really didn't give the whole gun issue much thought one way or the other, as it didn't often impinge on their day-to-day lives.

My parents, both Chicago born and bred and both solid GOP voters and social and fiscal conservatives as long as I can remember, have never been gun owners that I am aware of, and my mother at least has actively expressed verbal support for "common sense" gun legislation, along the line of "What does anyone need one of those for?" referring to scary-looking rifles.


Tango Juliet said...

I've known such conservatives too. I think we all have.

They still puzzle me.

Joseph said...

Metrocons, RINOs oh my...

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

Oh dear, I had forgotten that about Mr. Bennett. ~sigh~

I try not to cut the throats of social conservatives, why do they sharpen their razors for mine?

Tam said...

There's a distinction between a Metrocon and a RINO, Joseph. One actually holds conservative beliefs, the other doesn't.

NotClauswitz said...

And on the Other Side there's the Submetro-Libs: Liberals who live not in the Metro but in the sprawling 'Burbs AND own guns - guns that scare them. I think these are the ones who make a fetish out of ownership, who imbue the gun with psychological authority and feel the push-pull of dangerous attraction, and who sometimes flirt with the radicalism of semi-Conservative thought.

Welshman said...


Thank-you for providing a link to a piece that highlights William F. Buckley, Jr.'s belief in gun rights.

I happen to know from experience that Buckley believed thoroughly in the 2nd Amendment and expressed a decided disdain for those who would restrict our right to self-defense using firearms.

While Buckley's demeanor often appeared to those who did not know him as a 'metrocon,' one only need delve into his voluminous works, speeches, and quips to figure out that he was an ultimate freedom-fighter.

The problem, I think, with some is that they do not take the time to discover the gems couched in snark, intellectual discourse, and otherwise highly sophisticated rhetoric where the understated is of great value.

Those who don't 'get it' often make very erroneous assumptions about Buckley.

Anthony G. Martin
The Liberty Sphere

Welshman said...

Postscript to the above comment--'metrocon' only if one assumes that such persons do not hold to true conservative beliefs, which is not the case. Sorry I failed to make that clear.

Joanna said...

Your mom sounds like my mom, Tam. Although my mom goes so far as to suggest things like "keep your keys by your bed so you can hit the car alarm button and scare off the burglar!" Meaning, "I would rather see you fumble in the dark for a small, black object -- that may or may not work through the walls -- and try to scare away the intruder by annoying the neighbors. I would rather see you do that than think about you handling a gun." Gawd.

She did insist my dad teach her to shoot his .22 when they got married, and she's going to learn to use the pistol he bought recently. (I don't know what kind it is. It's black.) But there's still that "Ew guns are icky make them go away" undercurrent, and it gets my goat.

Les said...

It never ceases to amuse me that your roots are Chicagoan...

rickn8or said...

I'm for "common sense" gun laws, too; it would mean that about 98 percent of the gun laws on the books would disappear.

It must have been interesting, "Teenage Tam and her gunz vs. The Metrocons".

staghounds said...

I have the same razor confusion as NJT.

My GSI about abortion is zero. I think the current wars are stupid wastes. But why spend effort arguing with people who are otherwise allies?

Les Jones said...

Well, Mark Steyn sometimes mentions pro-gun policies the pro-gun policies of his home state of New Hampshire and Jonah Goldberg's "gun guy" is John of Argghhh, so points for both of them.

But, yeah, overall they aren't into 2A issues.

Joseph said...

I realize there's a difference, I guess my comment failed in that I was attempting with humor to point out that they are different animals. Like lions & tigers. I just couldn't think of a another nickname to do the Dorothy quote justice.

My bad.

On a tangent, when I first read the term Metrocon earlier this week, I thought it said Metrocoon, which is all kinds of wrong.

benEzra said...

I posted the following at the site of the original article, and if you don't mind I'll repeat it here:

I would point out that the head of the Brady Campaign, Republican former governor Paul Helmke, is arguably one of your metrocons. So is William J. Bennett, the driving force behind the original Federal "assault weapon" fraud instituted by Bush the Elder, and Sarah Brady herself.

If those of you who are conservative give a free pass to anti-gun conservatives, don't be surprised if you end up following in the footsteps of the UK and Australia, two nations in which sweeping bans were instituted BY CONSERVATIVES as a way to keep "the little people" from owning guns.

Being pro-choice on guns is not an inherently conservative position, and being anti-choice on guns is not an inherently liberal position; new restrictions on the law-abiding are mostly mostly pushed by center-left to center-right authoritarians who subscribe to a communitarian philosophy, and view More Authority as generally a good thing. Those people should be resisted, regardless of where they lie on the political spectrum.

George said...

This is especially interesting to me ... as a Canuck. You see ... we don't have what you have. (We don't even have a right to property ... so I cannot use excessive force to prevent a house-breaker-into from leaving with my valuables.

Anyway ... I was brought up and have lived my entire life in cities ... or their 'burbs. I am citified ... even if my university was a little one ... out in the countryside. Having said that, I've never been in a small town I didn't like ... US or Canada, it doesn't matter. The people I've met in those small towns have been, by and large, great to be with.

While Canada has nothing like the 2A, we have many of the same social conditions you describe ... without possibly the ruralification I see in Detroit. We don't have quite the same density, of course, and because we do not have the same tradition of rebellion that you have, we tend to be "better behaved". Look ... look, Mummy. All those Canadians are lining up so politely.

We are more likely to gradually fade into nothingness like the Aussies and the Brits ... than to stand up for our (weakened) rights like you Americans will.

Finally, because our population is concentrated in cities, we are more likely to see our conservatives as metrocons. With the exception of the Wild Rose Alliances in Alberta, our conservatives are pretty much milque toast in behaviour.

Please stay as you are; you might inspire some more of ours to grow up.


Ish said...

Today's National Review Online has a peice by David Rittgers, which, although old hat to most active Second Amendment types, is a pretty good defense of the right to keep and bear arms. Read it here:

(Word Verification "bardsher" Is that Cher's D&D character?)

staghounds said...

We cannot use excessive force to prevent a house-breaker-into from leaving with our valuables either.

(Just fooling with you.)

Condolences on some of the ways Canada has let go of its liberties. That's what so mystifies me, if foreigners or kings tried to impose these restrictions on us by force, we'd fight. But to our chosen masters, we surrender at discretion.