Sunday, October 25, 2009

7.65 Browning Automatic.

You know, yesterday, I was trying to think of an autopistol chambering in current common use that's older than the .32ACP, and I can't think of one.

The .32 debuted at the turn of the last century in the FN 1900; .30 Luger and .30 Mauser are as old and older, respectively, but neither one is in what I would call "common use" these days. All the older handgun cartridges I can think of are revolver loadings.

Huh. That John Moses Browning guy, he turns up everywhere.


Hunsdon said...

Does the .22 LR count?

Except for the lack of a poodle shooter, I could get through life pretty easily if I was restricted to owning and using only firearms that were designed by JMB. I'd miss my resolvers, of course, but from the 1903 to the 1911, from the pump Winnie .22 to the '94, the Low Wall and High Wall, to all those shotty guns . . . and that's leaving off crew served lead chunkers (and quasi crew-served like the BAR).

Genius is a word that gets overused, but I doubt any group of firearms enthusiasts would fail to award it to JMB.

Mopar said...

Come to think of it, pretty much all the popular pistol rounds are 100+ years old, and all but one were designed by JMB. Think about how far just about any other technology has advanced in the last century. Given that weapon R&D gets more funding then probably any other field, it's pretty amazing that century old firearm tech from JMB and the Mauser brothers is virtually unchanged and still in common use today.

John Stephens said...

Some things just work, and don't need improvement.

staghounds said...

I don't know that I'd count the .30 Mauser (actually, .30 Borchardt Mag.) out of "common use" just yet. There are lots and lots of Tokarevs and Soviet design SMGs out there in the third world, and of course in China.

I'd bet a good meal that there are more loaded rounds of Borchardt's design on the planet than JMB's 7.65.

Jeffro said...

Ahem. That would be John Moses Browning (PBUH).

Anonymous said...

Someone has already mentioned the 7.62x25 (.30 Mauser). I have a TT-33(Norinco model 54) and a 1903 .32

I have carried both and don't feel undergunned at all.

(You have to hit what you are aiming at, first, Period.)


Anonymous said...


I know the TT-30/33 Model of 54 are Browning copies. I was discussing the ammo itself.

the 7.62

the .30 Borchart and .30 Luger were developed by Hugo Borchardt and George Luger and copied by Mauser with the help of some industrial espionage by the Reicharms ministry. Hmmm can a country spy on itself?
All of that lead to the 9x19 eg Luger ammo which was .30 Luger blown out to 9mm


Anonymous said...

Yep. I have a Mauser model 1910/1914/1934 chambered for 7.65 that I inherited from my late father. It was made somewhere in the middle 1920's, and is still serviceable...

Tam said...


"I don't know that I'd count the .30 Mauser (actually, .30 Borchardt Mag.) out of "common use" just yet. There are lots and lots of Tokarevs..."

Ah, but 7.62 Tok, is not the same round as .30 Mauser in the same way that .38 Super is not the same round as .38 ACP.

netfotoj said...

Did ya'll know that in John M. Browning's wisdom, the great man designed what we now call .32 ACP with a semi-rim and it will work in revolvers? I've got a Charter .327 Magnum (for which mag ammo is currently impossible to find) but it shoots .32 ACP just fine. It's zippier than .32 S&W Long, but of course not as zippy as .32 H&R Mag, which is also impossible to find right now. When's the great ammo shortage gonna end?

Tam said...

They've got to catch back up with the regular stuff before they reset machines to load the oddballs.

jimbob86 said...

".327 Magnum (for which mag ammo is currently impossible to find)"

It seems to be available at Cabela's in La Vista, Nebraska.... same 1/2 dozen boxes with a film of dust on them..... seems it is not selling well here. Conservative bunch, here.

staghounds said...

The differences between them are not enough to make the Tokarev, Borchardt, and Mauser cartridges "different", since it's basically power rather than any meaningful dimension.

They are as much Hugo Borchardt's design as a Glaser .32 auto is John Browning's.