...except for guns. And this sign seen on the front door today tells me that my money is not wanted there anymore.
With the new law in Tennessee, the same one that allows you to CCW into places that serve alcohol, these little signs at the door are no longer just a formality. If you were to not notice this little out-of-the-way sign at knee level off to the right of the busy entrance and walk past it with a Kel-Tec in your purse, you would be committing a misdemeanor in the Volunteer State.
I wonder if McKay's realizes how many of their customers they may be turning into criminals with this sign? I mean, something roughly like one in twenty Tennesseans has a toter's permit, and the number trends higher in the hills and hollers of East Tennessee. Eighty thousand more Tennesseeans joined the ranks of the legally armed in the first six months of 2013 alone, and every single one of them is going to know to leave their gat in their car if they want to buy a used copy of Fifty Shades of Grey from McKay's?
Further, the sign is a slap in the face to logic and reason. The only guns it's going to keep out are the ones being carried by people who've been fingerprinted and background-checked, tested on basic marksmanship and knowledge of Tennessee's self-defense laws. The bad guys? The ones who would do harm with a handgun? They'll walk right through that sign like it was made out of paper.
I'm sorry, McKay's. We used to have something special going on, but we're all broke up now.
PS: Since I moved to Indy, I'm only in McKay's eight or ten times a year (2 visits/trip, one with Gunsmith Bob and one with Staghounds) but those of you who live locally and were weekly or monthly customers can politely express your dismay at (865) 588-0331.
63 comments:
"used copy of Fifty Shades of Grey"
Eeew. I think that violates health code laws right there...
Have you expressed your displeasure?
Comrade Misfit,
I certainly will be. For now, I'm just grumbling to 3,000+ of my closest friends.
We're fleeing the Grate State of California. I just packed up my library: 40 boxes, each weighting about 50 pounds. Yeah, a ton of books, literally. And there's another 500 or so pounds that's going to the Goodwill. A LOT of them came from the used market. A Saturday spent in the dusty bowels of a book reseller is a day well spent in my book.
I can't believe your McKay's would deliberately stick their finger in the eyes of so many customers. Have you talked to the management? Mayhaps they are under the apprehension that legal CCWs.., you know, can't read?
Have you tried abebooks.com?
Anon 8:06,
Visiting a bookstore includes a number of tangible benefits, e.g., actually handling the books, discovering something special in the stacks, and inhaling the aroma of gently-decaying non-acid-free paper (among others), that are sorely lacking in the online used-book experience.
That's the whole point. By their action, McKay's have taken that tangible experience away from Tam. And for no particularly good reason, too.
The law must not have very good specifications about placement of such signs. The actual entrance doesn't even show in the picture. I can see where it would be easy to miss.
Stupid move, McKays.
Sadly, hitting them in the wallet is the only way to make them see the error of their ways.
NOTE: Their sign is NOT posted legally
Yes, it is. The posting law changed in 2010. The gunbuster is all that is needed.
As an aside, those signs say to me, "Our employees can't be trusted not to murder you while you shop."
Going to TN for vacation this week. Now something else I have to plan for.
I hope this isn't too commonplace.
TN might just have to be moved down the list of potential relocation sites. :(
Buckeye Firearms sells "No Guns = No Money business cards.
One less stop in Nashville, one less thing to do in Knox-vegas.
That sign doesn't fit the statutory requirements to make carrying there a criminal offense.
Grumbling to your 3,000 closest friends. Plus the Professor's 50,000. I'd never heard of McKay's until now. Probably would have been my kind of place.
I remember Jeff Foxworthy's comment on the Dixie Chicks implosion: I hope that they really meant it, because otherwise that was an eight figure mistake.
Yes, it does.
I worked for a while at mckays some years ago. Back then, it was staffed by leftist nitwits. It was owned and managed by the same. So this comes as no surprise.
Anon 10:02,
"That sign doesn't fit the statutory requirements to make carrying there a criminal offense."
Well, you say it doesn't, but TCA 39-17-1359 says it does.
http://www.learntocarry.com/nogunsnomoney/
Ayup. We have a couple tolerble good auto parts stores locally that have that sign, and I have informed them as well.
"Have you tried abebooks.com?"
Abebooks has gone totally to hell in the last year. I don't know if it was sold a troop of baboons or what. All I've gotten from them the last three orders have been the wrong book, or the right book in wretched (ie, landfill-worthy) condition. And they'll try to cheat you out a refund and stiff you for the return postage. Too bad, I used to buy a LOT through them.
Hey, McKay's - Amazon doesn't give a damn if we wear a dozen guns when we buy their books.
Huh, whaddaya know? And here I thought brick-and-mortar bookstores were just barely hanging on by razor-thin profit margins. But McKay's obviously makes gargantuan profits to be able to afford this, as well as a simply massive customer base; because they're treating customers as if we were as disposable as Kleenex. Nice to know where we stand in McKay's world.
TCA actually mandates that the sign must be visible AT THE ENTRANCE. Seems I recall a court case just after the law changed, and I think a States AG Opinion.
I have patronized Knoxville businesses on your recommendation. I stopped by Coal Creek Armory this Spring, purchased some ammo and tried out a few of their rental guns. I don't get through the town often, but I guess McKay's is not on the list of places to stop when I do.
TCA 39-17-1359 requires the notification to be at the entrances, clearly visible to those who enter. Posting the sign at a low height off to the side of the front of the building may not be sufficient, especially if someone is standing in front of the sign or someone moves that trash barrel a few feet to the left.
How about someone coming up with a poster that has a slashed circle superimposed over a slashed circle over a pistol?
I believe you only commit a 3rd class misdemeanor (least serious, similar to public intoxication or disorderly conduct) of criminal trespass IF you are discovered to be carrying inside a posted business and THEN refuse to leave AFTER being asked to leave. It is my understanding carrying inside the business is not a violation, refusing to leave AND carrying is the violation.
I go there frequently, for the used CD's mostly, even though they have absolutely some of the creepiest-looking staff members there you can imagine.
They're exposing their customers to unnecessary risk by not allowing weapons to be carried by law-abiding, permit-issued customers excercising their right to concealed carry.
McKay's carries a lot of cash and does a lot of business. The rent-a-cop at the door won't stop a determined robber or team of robbers. Every customer in the place is a sitting duck, since there's only one way out, and it's right by the cash registers. And knowing nobody else will have a gun in the event of a stickup just makes McKay's a better target for a stickup.
Here in Georgia we don't have this problem, but when I ventured up to Tennessee this summer to visit Smokey Mountain Knife Works, I notice one at a Coleman outlet store. After quickly Google search of Tenn law I had to leave my Glock behind. It really sucked to be frank with ya.
It'd be a good campaign for people to mail in bundles of old receipts from a business that posts, with a cover letter explaining that you won't shop there again until they change their policy.
The store's founders are big-time liberals, so (sadly) this is not surprising.
Actually, it's quite helpful for liberals to self-identify by using a sign like this. Otherwise, an innocent conservative may wander in and give them money to further their agenda.
Seriously, TCA requires the sign be prominently displayed at the entrance. Does the sign placement meet that requirement? It's a defense if you're charged, but that could go either way.
Tscottme said...
"I believe you only commit a 3rd class misdemeanor (least serious, similar to public intoxication or disorderly conduct) of criminal trespass IF you are discovered to be carrying inside a posted business and THEN refuse to leave AFTER being asked to leave. It is my understanding carrying inside the business is not a violation, refusing to leave AND carrying is the violation."
This is incorrect. Merely possessing a firearm beyond the sign is the crime. Also, it is a Class B misdemeanor, punishable by a $500 fine. You will have to go to court. It will be on your criminal record whenever you go through customs or get stopped for a traffic offense or apply for a job or a license, subjecting you to additional scrutiny by the men in black. Do not underestimate the hassle involved
Consider also that the people who have jumped through the hoops to get a concealed carry license are also heavily represented in the Vinn Diagram in the circle entitled "Those Who Buy Books."
Matt - The people who put up that sign are not included in the circle entitled "Those Who Know What a Vinn Diagram Is".
@Charlie Foxtrot
We're fleeing the Grate State of California. I just packed up my library: 40 boxes, each weighting about 50 pounds. Yeah, a ton of books, literally. And there's another 500 or so pounds that's going to the Goodwill
We're fleeing the People's Republic of Massachusetts. Like you I've recently done the triage (well, bi-age?):
5,000 books went to Goodwill and another 5,000 books got boxed up.
A bit of math ( http://avgpostageweights.blogspot.com/2010/10/average-weight-of-paperback-book.html ) tells me that the 5,000 remaining book (packed into about 60 different 18 gallon rubbermaid bins) weighs in at around 7,000 lbs. or 3.5 tons.
INSANE.
If I could snap my fingers and trade all of that mass for a fully loaded kindle, I would do so in a second.
The witlings in question being liberals, it might help to make their heads esplode to point out they're engaged in a civil rights violation.
One) The second amendment does not limit its scope to the Federal government. The wording is absolute and thereby universal.
B) The right inheres to the individual, not to property. While private property rights MAY trump (still, those offended may withdraw custom from the merchant)...
3) we have a regime however odious which asserts that businesses operating as public accommodations may not infringe on rights on the basis of property rights.
M
Well, foo.
Some handy cards to hand out to the terminally confused.
Oh, and there's an app for that.
So go to the next best thing (her ex-husband's business): http://mrksusedbooks.com/ I know it's a 15-20 mile drive but, they have a decent selection.
I don't know what's sadder, that McKay's did this or that the idiots in the state legislature require the sign to be so small.
Here in Texas the "no CHL guns" signage is specified in law as to placement, wording, letter size, even color contrast, and is listed as Texas Penal Code 30.06 in a wonderful and coincidental bit of legislative magic.
A handgun with a red circle & bar means nothing in Texas.
Don't make it there often, but there's a McKay's in Manassas, VA I have stopped in and spent with.
I will not do that again, and I will contact them and tell them why.
Which leads me to a question: I do buy a number of used books, as well as other things, via the Intertubes. Were not it for our hostess, I would not know to never patronize McKays' again. From time to time I've seen various lists online RE: large anti-gun companies; anyone know of a web site with that info on smaller retailers? It would be handy to know before I buy that Fred & Larry's Hardware in Podunk who is an Amazon partner has a "no guns" sign on their door.
They're declaring war and I think we should fight it, too.
mikee,
"Here in Texas the "no CHL guns" signage is specified in law as to placement, wording, letter size, even color contrast, and is listed as Texas Penal Code 30.06..."
It is in Tennessee, too, in TCA 39-17-1359.
Alien, I'm not sure the Manassas store is the same company as there is no mention of it on the Knoxville store site.
Fwiw, I live in Manassas and shop there frequently. Oddly enough, I'm in the Knoxville area this week and planned to hit McKay's here as well.
Chris
Mikee mentions the Texas Penal code # "30.06 as a wonderful and coincidental bit of legislative magic"..
No coincidence there; a good friend of mine (his wife is the county judge) Jim Horn, former member of the TX legislature, co sponsored the bill. He takes great delight in pointing out the out- of -sequence number of the code... totally intentional.
It is pretty common in Texas for stores to post a sign in the window that says (in English and Spanish) that the unlicensed carry of concealed handguns on the premises is a felony punished by so many years in prison and so large a fine and listing the state law that specifies this. These signs mean nothing because the carrying of a concealed handgun in public without a license is a felony everywhere.
These signs serve the useful function of reassuring antigun idiots while informing people who posses a concealed handgun license that it is actually legal to carry in that store.
Perhaps merchants in Tennessee might want to explore this bit of multifunctional sign.
VEnn diagram. Also, @2:24:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcwz8-EfFYE
You can always let your displeasure be known on their Yelp site.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/mckay-used-books-and-cds-knoxville-3
Alien,
The app I mentioned allows one to report "gun-free-zone" establishments as well as see maps with such places clearly marked. Don't leave home without it.
Manassas, VA has a listing for "Richard McKay Used Books," which is probably not the same business as the "McKay's Used Books and CDs" discussed here.
--
Chas C-Q
One book store closed while I was gone, and the other stopped carrying gun magazines (sent Manda for a copy of SWAT to send over to me, they told her "we no longer carry publications that encourage violence.") I guess it's a good thing I already had a Kindle.
Fred,
Dang. Now I feel like we broke the place while you were gone. :(
If a bookstore says "we no longer carry publications that encourage violence", then they must not carry any Bibles.
"He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." - Luke 22:36 in "The New International Version"
That was not an example of dispensing fashion advice, specifying nifty accessories.
Maybe use a little reverse psychology. Go in and complain that it isn't posted prominently -enough-.
Say you're concerned carriers might miss it and get in trouble or -worse- might actually carry their scary guns around innocent people.
Print out the text of the law and highlight the parts detailing the minimum requirements. Post about them on their Facebook as a concerned citizen, not a pro-gun person.
They want to use a law, make 'em follow it to the -letter- and choke on it. Publicly complain until it is front and center on the door so it can't be missed. Don't let them get away with half-assing their discrimination. Make 'em own it to anyone who asks.
We left some comments about this over at Vox's, some of them about what we would sell in _our_ bookstores, if we had such.
I think the last line in my comment was something like, "Smoking would be allowed of course, just not in the magazine."
Ooh, I like Matthew's approach.
Although I generally am sympathetic to the "No guns, No money" position, I generally regard those signs the way I do all the other idiotic signs in the world. Other peoples problems.
Concealed means concealed. If I'm doing it right they'll never know.
Matthew has the Black Knighting exactly right. Make them wallow mindlessly in their own mire.
Oh, Billy O? You might consider walking into one of those places un-armed one time, and proving that, and bitching about the gun prohib. The next eight or ten times you go in there, carry concealed. I betcha those bozos won't detect that. Then, if you are up to that kind of activism, mention what you've done. Always assuming you've complied with all laws, of course.
Billy O said "Concealed means concealed. If I'm doing it right they'll never know"
Yeah.. But if they do you're going to be in deep poop in some places. No one says you have to enter
If it wasn't so obvious I'd wonder if some competitor didn't just stick that sign on their door knowing it would probably lead to their bankruptcy. The political ramifications and bottom line dollar loss to their business are the only things that will be affected.
After all, if a CCW carrier is doing it right, nobody is going to know they are carrying anyway. Especially if they have a small self defense knife
that's nearly impossible to see someone carrying, or one of those NAA mini revolvers :)
Other brick-&-mortar places, such as Books-A-Million and Hastings, are increasingly dealing in used books, so more choices are available for those times you'd rather just walk in and browse.
Unless there's another McKay's I Knoxville with the same paint scheme and trashcan arrangement (with free zine rack in background), the sign is gone.
For inquiring minds:
Tried to call MacKay's, since I didn't feel up to driving 87.2 miles just to waste my time with the dweebs behind the office wall.
Their number is a relatively informative menu, but it provides no - repeat no - option for actually speaking to a person; and I didn't feel like hacking the phone tree . . .
Their website also leaves no option for email contact.
But . . . it does link to their Facebook page! Those of you with FB accounts may wish to log in and post comments/complaints on their "wall". That is one surefire way of getting the message across. Think of how many customers would see it.
(See, there appears to be some redeeming value to FB after all. A self-hosted Yelp . . .)
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