Thursday, March 19, 2009

My position, let me show you it...

There has always been this hand-wringing worry on the gun boards (and in the gossip corners of ranges and gun stores across America) with not "giving away your position".

Things that will allegedly "give away your position" have included:

  • Lasers.
  • Flashlights.
  • Tritium night sights.
  • The noise of the safety on a 1911 or an AK.
  • The *clack* as you release (?) the squeeze cocker on an HK P7.
  • The sound of chambering a round in a shotgun or carbine that was stored "cruiser ready" (ie. empty chamber, full magazine.)

What are you going to be doing with these firearms? Laying ambushes along the Ho Chi Minh trail?

The two most likely scenarios for me to ever need to use a firearm involve my assailant knowing exactly where I am because he's either approaching me on the street, or he's in my house and he can hear me yelling for the cavalry on 911.

If you live someplace where you are in danger of people spraying AK fire at you through the walls of your domicile if you accidentally "give away your position", you don't need a quieter gun, you need a real estate agent. Either that, or stop making enemies with the kind of people that are likely to send squads of machine-gun-toting killers to your house.

37 comments:

The Duck said...

So True

Blackwing1 said...

Gee, and here I'd always been hearing that:

"The sound of chambering a round in a shotgun..." was supposed to be so fearsome as to guarantee that any bad guy would instantaneously leave the premises, leaving a brown stain in their pants as they went.

You mean it'll "give away my position" instead? Now I gotta change all my home-defense tactics again.

Joseph said...

I've oft wondered what I've been missing when hearing this crap. I guess I live a much more sheltered life than all the "operators: out there.

J.R.Shirley said...

Word.

Of course, you never know when the robot ninja zombie bears may show...

JimB said...

Mall Ninja's.... You gotta love em.
You hit it on the head Tam. If i need to use my gun "giving away my position" is the least of my worries.

fast richard said...

I'm always careful about easing the safety off on the shotgun so as not to spook the deer that is aproaching. In a home defense situation, not so much. If I'm under attack by the sort of people who are attracted to the sound of weapons being readied, I'm probably already toast.

The incident many years ago that lead to my first handgun purchase, also lead to a move to a better neighborhood. Even in that situation, as soon as the bad guys figured out that there was someone home, they made tracks out of there as fast as they could. As entertaining as the Die Hard movies are, they are clearly not real life.

Turk Turon said...

The only sound-in-the-dark that I would truly fear is the distinctive "thooop!" noise of an M-203 grenade launcher being loaded.

Weer'd Beard said...

If the sound of my 1911 safety clicking off is going to give away my position, what kind of majik indian moccasins are these ninjas wearing that their footfalls aren't going alert the hunter-killers?

This goes double that most of the Mall Ninjas I've met ALWAYS have a hefty gut, and heavy combat boots.

Ken said...

Don't forget the "ping" when your Garand ejects the en bloc clip, which double secret gives away your position and lets those zombies who until very recently were your comrades in arms (or at least gunboards) know you're Winchester...then you're in the really deep kimchee.

Anonymous said...

stop making enemies is the basis of all liberal policy, liberal and domestic. And it really works, too!

Ken, you're doing it wrong. Simply carry an empty stripper clip, and toss it away when you still have several rounds left. It smokes them out. That's how we won the Battle of Westfield Mall.

I'll give them one: When investigating in darkness, in the field or in the barn, that "police grip" that puts a flashlight and pistol in one 2-handed grip is not smart. It's just too easy a target.

Mikee said...

Different folks, different strokes. Following the only good advice my older brother ever gave me, from way back when he was in the Airborne Danger Rangers and flush with his newly earned learning about ways to kill enemies, I will never point a firearm unless its use is imminent (or as he put it, "Only point a gun at someone when you're gonna shoot the bas***d.") I expect my trigger finger will beat their reaction time despite my having given away my position.

Or, more realistically, what would Clint Smith say?

Tam said...

"When investigating in darkness, in the field or in the barn, that "police grip" that puts a flashlight and pistol in one 2-handed grip is not smart. It's just too easy a target."

If someone was instructed to go "investigating" like that, they were instructed wrong. That's how you hold the gun and light to shoot something. The light is just being used as final confirmation that the something actually needs to be shot.

Anonymous said...

"Either that, or stop making enemies with the kind of people that are likely to send squads of machine-gun-toting killers to your house. "

.... guess I better not sell any shotguns, lest they be a little to short...... or is posting on gun boards and homeschooling enough to make enemies with our Dear Leader?

Tam said...

Heh. They have thermal imaging, so they already know my position. :p

docjim505 said...

If I may be a bit contrarian, much the same can be said about just about any aspect of using firearms for self defense.

- Concealed carry: What kind of area do you live / work in??? If you are so fearful, then perhaps you should live / work elsewhere.

- High cap, service-type pistols: OMG! Do you REALLY expect to get involved in a Miami-FBI shootout where you NEED 15+1 and spare mags???

- AR-15 or similar, "assault" rifle: Well, if you REALLY feel that an attack by al Qaeda or hordes of zombies is in the cards, then I suppose you need one. Or psychiatric help.

etc, etc.

Lest it be thought that I'm a GFW, I like to think that I am (ahem) well-prepared for any defense situation short of invasion by the Red Chinese or a stampede of African elephants, and I support the right of all Americans to do the same. However, I enjoy a chuckle now and then at ads for the latest-and-greatest "tactical" gizmo to hang from a Picatinny rail (I think my fave is the bayonet one can get for some CZ pistols) as well as some of the more outrageous SHTF scenarios that some people seem to relish envisioning.

"You'll give away your position!"

Good stuff.

Frank W. James said...

I guess that's the counter-point to the old "...let the sound of a 12 gauge being chambered with your pump gun in the dark scare them away..." nonsense.

If that really worked, why not just sell Memorex recordings of same and avoid all the legal hassles with having to shoot the intruder?

All The Best,
Frank W. James

Somerled said...

The odor of BS will give away a position. That's why the old timers kept a sack of lime in the outhouse.

Mike W. said...

Hmmm, my primary home defense gun has night sights AND a TLR-1. Guess I should switch to my CCW piece instead. I wouldn't want to "give away my position" in the unlikely event of a home invasion.

Being able to identify my target and SEE what i'm shooting at is just a wee bit more important than "giving away my position."

Anonymous said...

Bwahahaha! Love it, Tam.

One of my biggest pet peeves is mall commandos who worry about finding the lightest possible hi cap handgun and the slickest rig to carry it, practice their mad skillz on the Mozambique and walk through the grocery store in condition orange. They also have rolls of belly fat that threaten to obscure their carry weapon, along with the carton or so of Camels they smoke weekly.

I'm not saying there aren't threats out there, but worrying about which guy to shoot first if you walk in on a convenience store robbery should maybe take a back seat to having a salad a few times a week and driving by the Whataburger instead of getting something supersized.

But personal defense threats and training are kind of fun, in their own way. Health concerns are not. Believe me, I know.

Matt
St Paul

Weer'd Beard said...

Oh BTW if my home is invaded my secruity system makes one HELL of a din. I doubt you'd be able to hear a shotshell riding the elevator, let alone a car door slaming, or me doing Irish Clog dancing whilst waiting for the goblins to mount the stairs to their doom.

Anonymous said...

Cooments like this give away your position.

JHardin said...

...and here I thought "giving away your position" was going to be a discussion about ill-considered blog posts...

Tam said...

If there's a List, I'd damned well better be on it. ;)

Rabbit said...

I don't have that problem.
Claymores don't have lights.


Regards,
Rabbit.

Gregg said...

Personally, I have never worried about the click of the safety coming off revealing my posisition as the big BOOM and flash of light that tend to follow that click are sure to give away my position.

OTOH, how in the h377 is anyone expected to hear the click of the safety over the growls and barks of the dogs??

Dr. StrangeGun said...

Uhm, as far as home defense goes, isn't it the whole idea to give away your position, in the intent to make "your position" somewhere the intruder had absolutely no wish to be?

Billy Beck said...

"...the Battle of Westfield Mall."

I'm dyin', over here.

DirtCrashr said...

They have thermal imaging, I have tin-foil imaging - it's laid out all down the hall...yeh that's it.
And taped to the walls too.

Joseph said...

Hmmm...then perhaps I should rethink my strategy of protecting myself with Panda the Assault Chihuahua .

WV: Winglist

Hey, I did see a B-17 fly over yesterday.( Near Lackland AFB). Not hard to notice, jet engines just don't sound like those radial piston jobs.

kbarrett said...

These women have given away their position ...

Anonymous said...

Gregg, I ain't deer hunting with you no more.

kbarrett! That's what I'm talkin bout!

reflectoscope said...

Heh. They have thermal imaging, so they already know my position. :p

Well, duh. You are kind of hot, no? ;)

Jim

w/v: Dingfu. L337 autobody skillz?

Stranger said...

The last five times I have had to reach for a gun, I was already in harms way. One parking lot incident, two parking garage incidents, one opening my business for a customer incident, and one meeting with a looter after Katrina. I have accumulated two paring knives, one chunk of pipe, and a couple of good laughs after my nerves recovered. Before that, peeping tom that broke down the timber when I cocked a model 10, a house burglar who froze when I jacked a shell into an 870, and a leaver from a booby hatch who left my tourist cabin with a face full of splinters from a load of shot through the door.

I'd say I have some experience. And I don't remember giving away my position to have been a consideration even once.

Now – if we were playing Cheyenne and Chivington, that would be a different matter.

Stranger

Jason said...

What Mikee said, and his brother...

Firehand said...

The shotgun's cruiser-ready, as I don't like having a round chambered, and the hammer cocked, for long periods. 'Course, as you said, 'giving away my position' wasn't a consideration: if they're in my house I WANT them to know that hall is the feed slot for the cuisinart.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, if we're talking about hunting at close range it's a somewhat different matter (my one and only deer was taken at about 15 to 20 yards, and I did a silent cock on the caplock) but otherwise I agree completely. - Lyle

Thomas said...

As most self defense situations entail just that, self defense from an imminent assault, then "giving away your position" is rather silly. But let's not cast aspersions on those people who take their personal defense seriously. Why should you have have to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Commando to be allowed to arm yourself in case of trouble? As for the safety of your neighborhood, bad guys like quiet suburban neighborhoods. The yuppies are usually not armed and they have better stuff. Do you need 15+ rounds and a spare magazine to defend yourself? Probably not. But then does a twenty one year old need life insurance? So why buy it?

If you live long enough, you will learn that the boy scouts were onto something with their motto. Oh, one more thing you can never be too rich, too good looking, or have too much ammunition.