Wednesday, December 23, 2009

Unexpected?

So the cover of this month's American Rifleman announces "The Unexpected SIG516".

A new AR clone these days is about as "unexpected" as another Friday the 13th sequel or Law & Order spinoff. What's "unexpected" is that there are still some gun manufacturers who haven't jumped on this bandwagon, since all that's needed to get in the game is an ATF variance letter sent to Consolidated Continental [ed: D'oh!] Machine Tool or Sabre Defense. In a world where such unlikely candidates as Ruger, Remington, and Smith & Wesson are pimping AR-style carbines, what's left?

Here are my predictions for "unexpected" AR announcements at SHOT:
  1. Harrington & Richardson H&R-15: Cast parts and stained birch furniture keep costs down. Sold at Wal-Mart for $109.95.
  2. Marlin MAR-15: Neither direct impingement nor piston operated, the MAR-15 is California-legal, since the bolt is cycled via a complex linkage actuated by rocking the pistol grip forward and back.
  3. Thompson/Center EncoR-15: Available in almost two hundred chamberings, three quarters of which are designed by J.D. Jones and only of interest to handloaders who also hunt rabid grizzly bears.
  4. General Motors GI-15: Unsold inventory stocks will allow these to be sold at zero percent financing with a hefty manufacturer's rebate less than six months after their introduction. Brace for recalls.
  5. Apple iR-15: Only works with proprietary ammunition. Made of sleek, white plastic. Has to be sent to an authorized service center for field-stripping and cleaning. Owners soon sport glazed, zombielike expressions of loyalty familiar to posters at MacForums or GlockTalk.
  6. Harley-Davidson HD-15: Leaks oil. Comes with clip-on ponytail and lick'n'stick eagle tattoo in box, as well as coupon for chromed BUIS, charging handle, and highway pegs.

65 comments:

Anonymous said...

You owe me a keyboard. I blew coffee all over this one.

The same goes for 1911's.


Ratcatcher 55

Jeffro said...

Would a full auto version of the HD-15 have a two shot burst?

The Raving Prophet said...

True enough.

What we need isn't yet another AR copy. Nothing against the AR platform; I have a few of them at home (all homebuilt frankenrifles), but the market is already flooded and there's plenty of high quality parts or complete rifles available at decent prices. Nobody's going to do anything better than BCM, LMT, or Colt and they aren't going to do it any cheaper than DPMS or Bushmaster and have enough quality left in it to be worth having for even plinking. Stop with the ARs already.

What we could use are some new designs that are ergonomic and more updated that sell for less than $1500. The FS2000, SCAR, and similar are quite nice, but they're all in the two kilobuck range. The Sig 556 isn't bad, but I'd rather see Sig play with the design a bit more rather than have a me-too AR.

Anonymous said...

Sure, it is silly and ZIG ZAUER would make money hand over faust if they would build Title I versions of the Stg.90, 510, 540s, und so weiter over yet another CMT AR-15.

However, look at it this way, now it is hard to say that "assault weapons" are not, in term of art from Heller, "in common usage."

Shootin' Buddy

theirritablearchitect said...

When I glanced at your HD model, I thought, "What, leaks oil?"

I just about sprayed my screen with coffee.

Great minds, and all that.

Carteach0 said...

World class snark, right there.

Nathan said...

Too funny.

Joanna said...

The French Canadian version either refuses to fire, saying you should be able to move the bullet yourself, or insists the target be moved to line up with the sights instead of the other way around.

Okay, maybe you have to work where I do to get that one ...

reflectoscope said...

Funny, right there.

Jim

tomcatshanger said...

You forgot the plug in hybrid EVR-15.

Turk Turon said...

LMAO!

Joseph said...

I must be the only person this post didn't strike as funny. Guess I've seen too many "Therz 2 manny ARz out there" comments/posts.

Tam said...

Joseph,

I hates me some ARs.

I'd type more, but I gotta go put my new BCM charging handle in my RRA/MGI carbine.

D.W. Drang said...

BWA-HA-HA!
Oh, as for the GI-15, the Michigan National Guard used to have M-16s made at the GM Hydramatic Plant in Ypsilanti (AKA "Ypsitucky", due to the preponderance of residents who moved up from your former state of residence.)

WV: shized. I'm not sure what it means, I need a Rap-to-English dictionary...

Joel said...

It's funny because none of those would completely surprise me.

SayUncle said...

doesn't HK already make the iR15?

-SayUncle

alath said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
alath said...

I'm holding out for a Hi-Point Hi-15. I heard all about this from an overweight gentleman with wearing a meshback camo hat at my local gun store. The Hi-15 is going to be a direct-blowback semiautomatic rifle. The lower will be a standard AR lower. The upper receiver will look like a breadbox and weigh 22 pounds.

Fred said...

GM actually did make M16s at one point, my battle buddy in Afghanistan carried a M16A2 that was made by their defense division. (the Hydra-matic Division, from about 30 seconds of internet research. Looks like they made A1's and my buddy's had a moded and restamped to "A2" lower, which makes sense, I carried a Colt that came into existence the same way) We thought it was pretty cool to have a Chevy rifle.
I guess it wouldn't take much for GM to warm up the old machines.

Anonymous said...

Yes, GM has made many guns, including the M3 "Grease Gun".

If Obama Motors wanted to make money, it would make guns as well. Just think how cheap 1911s would be if the production lines got spooled up again.

Shootin' Buddy

Anonymous said...

GM has made M16's on more than one occasion, then. Back during my brief stint in the Green Machine (22 months 10 days, but who's counting), the 16 I had was manufactured by Saginaw Steering Gear Division.

Cheers, Cactus Jack Poltroon

Lorimor said...

HA!

Kristopher said...

I'm waiting for my Dixie-15 trade gun, a flinter smoothbore for non-traditionalists ... with backup silver bead front sight ( only ) on the rail.

Kristopher said...

( does magpul make brass patch boxes for the AR platform? )

BPE said...

Just FYI, there is a lever action version of the M-16 available in the UK :

http://www.southern-gun.co.uk/?page=items&cat_id=1&item_id=33

Lorimor said...

Microsoft XP15- Best known for its trademark "Blue Stock of Death" furniture.

Featuring innovative "Plug n' play" magazines and sighting systems, the rifle was however doomed to failure as even light to moderate usage required routine re-barrelling.

fanboy said...

Whatsamatter you guys???

Don't you know that the L-15 by Linux is the bestest rifle ever and will soon take over the whole rifle world.....

Jason said...

The Glock-15.

It. Is. PERFECT. They'll add a third "safe-action" stage to the trigger, a new rougher texture, and their own proprietary 5.56 Glock AR round. It'll be nothing like the .222 Remington, honest. Pinky swears and all.

Ed Foster said...

Actually, it's Continental Machine and Tool Co., and we make Sabre Defense's recievers. Plus, the first 50,000 S&W M&P15's (the nice ones) were actually Stag Arms, from our retail arm.

And wait until you see our new (hopefully soon) California-legal semi. I won't let any cats out of the bag, but the trick dates from a certain Scandihoovian device of the 1800's.

In the meantime, how about a British version of the AR-15 for mass sales over there? It wouldn't need any plugs or welding to make it unfireable, we could just have it made by Lucas.

Mikael said...

Re: BPE

*cringe* I wouldn't consider firearm + available to be words compatible with UK. You know, except maybe, just maybe, double barrel shotguns for the skeet/fox hunt upper crust.

ExurbanKevin said...

Don't you know that the L-15 by Linux is the bestest rifle ever and will soon take over the whole rifle world

Yes, but there's 16 different versions of it, all built with parts from all over the place, and none of them feel just right until you add a few parts of your own.

Microsoft XP15- Best known for its trademark "Blue Stock of Death" furniture.

That's XP15 Basic Home Version that does that. Try upgrading to XP15 Deluxe Premium SP3.

And then there's the HK AR, which'll be all mil-spec and a gamer fanboy's wet dream and be just like every other AR out there except it'll be way overpriced and...

Oh, wait, that's what the HK416 already is.

Nevermind...

Noah D said...

Yes, but there's 16 different versions of it, all built with parts from all over the place, and none of them feel just right until you add a few parts of your own.

Waitaminute...isn't that pretty much what ARs are really like, now?

Tam said...

Noah D,

ZING! :D

Rick R. said...

Ed Foster said:

In the meantime, how about a British version of the AR-15 for mass sales over there? It wouldn't need any plugs or welding to make it unfireable, we could just have it made by Lucas.

Lucas, the Prince of Darkness. . .

staghounds said...

Mikael, what do we hunting people need shotguns for?

Jim said...

When Kalishnikov releases a stamped-steel, riveted AR variant, then I think we'll have reached the precipi....um, pinnacle of AR zaniness.

Until then, the more the merrier!

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

W.V. "mutly" Yep, that'd be what's described in this here thread!

Mad Saint Jack said...

Apple iJam.

Joseph said...

I'd type more, but I gotta go put my new BCM charging handle in my RRA/MGI carbine.

OK, that made me laugh. Good thing, I thought my sense of humor had skeedaddled.

WV sters: how hillbillys get to the second floor

Alston said...

In related news - and yes, I giggled over the suggested brands - SIG's "unexpected" 516 may or may not have a future. The bolt carrier SIG is representing as their brainchild, as shown in the magazine ad, was purchased direct from LWRC's webstore, so they can promote it as their own as they tool up to copy it's patented features.

http://forum.lwrci.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5774&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Hilarious. That got them a cease and desist order. I'd say that SIG needs to go back to the drawing board, but that would imply that they ever broke out the drawing board in the first place.

Disclaimer - I have no financial or business interest in either company, but I think engineering patents are generally good things, and you should pretty much have to be Mainland China to blatantly steal a patented design. I did own an LWRC rifle, and it was a good gun.

Alston said...

Oh, and Tam, I have a BCM Gunfighter charging handle arriving today, as well. Betcha it's neat.

Tam said...

Alston,

"Betcha it's neat."

It comes with a cool sticker that says "Gunfighter" which is already gracing the side of my PC's tower case above the "got sig?" sticker. This will no doubt help my pwnage at Counterstrike! :D

og said...

I'm holding out for the Holland and Holland HH-15. The action is lovingly handforged from a single piece of duraluminum and hand-filed to fit the user's frame precisely. Stock and forend are pieces of elm burl which grow around special forms placed in the rich soil of the Carpathian mountains. The twin barrels are regulated so that the dual projectiles merge in flight at the point of impact, adjusted by a sliding latch on the forend. Fittings will begin in February of 2010, and the first rifles will be delivered in june of 2011. Each rifle will come with a pair of magazines in the handfitted baize lined case, additional magazines on request. And if you have to ask, you can't afford it

staghounds said...

From Gardone, Val Trompia comes the

UR-15, with brass frame and sharply curved, pointy brass buttplate.

And that H&H will be FOUR years coming. But you pay with your order.

Anonymous said...

This is the internet age - so how about:

the AMA-15 - available with one mouse click

the AOL-15 - says "You've got AMMO!" in a cheerful voice when you insert a full mag.

The Insta-15 - Shoots all day, every day

The craig-15 - only available as an upper receiver.

Anonymous said...

Don't forget the Apple iR-15 only works with Apple Imags

Ed Foster said...

Appreciate the correction Ma'am. You're still number one on the list for coming here to frosty old New England for tests and tours when we get somebody back here to review the 1911's. Flat out, nobody in the business does what we do to a reciever. Bring a camera.

And don't I still owe you a lower reciever for the SVT that shot sideways?

Plus, sitting in the corner of the office gathering dust, is the 6.8 Rem barrel and bolt I meant to ship ages ago. It's public now, so everybody pile on me if I don't get the lady her promised goodies soonest.

An O.M.F.G. moment you might enjoy. Mary from ATF was doing some polite poking, and in truth, she's tough but a sweetie, so we actually listen sometimes.

She made a comment about product turnover, and we checked it out. Guess what? An entire crate of original CMT (not Stag) marked lower recievers, the same ones the pimple witted kids on AR15.Com pay $400 bucks for.

I promise you a low number 4 digit when you get here. That's not a bribe, you can say anything you choose to about the shiny, beautiful, breathtakingly lovely and precise pistols I'm slaving my pink little fingers to death over. Anything, no matter how it might hurt me.

And be warned. It's a Polish factory, so everybody smokes on the floor. Constantly.

Feel free to light up any time you're not in the office, and most of the locals have standardised on Marlboro Lights if you're carrying spares.

We also eat lots of meat (insanely good Polish restaurants here in Novy Britski), everybody hunts (I spend all my spare time each October tuning up everybody's hunting rigs), and I've gotten half a dozen of the younger guys into my club and hooked on NRA High Power Rifle.

The humongous blond kid? DO NOT shoot trap with him for money, he was on their Olympic squad. I wish I'd known beforehand.

Ed Foster said...

Mikael: The Lucas electrics reference has to do with their (in)famous habit of crapping out if you so much as look at them, or expect them to do something silly, like operate competently on a daily basis. I found out the hard way with my otherwise perfect XKE.

Want to leave any Jaguar owner rolling on the floor? Ask him why the English drink warm beer.

When he says he doesn't know, tell him it's because their refrigerators are made by Lucas.

Anonymous said...

Lucas is all about keeping the smoke in....you let the smoke out, then it no workie.

You must have let the smoke out on your XK...oh, I can't do it (like saying a magazine is a clip)....E-Type.

Les Jones said...

Harrington & Richardson H&R-15: Cast parts and stained birch furniture keep costs down. Sold at Wal-Mart for $109.95.

I'll take a dozen, plz.

deadcenter said...

You forgot the Rockola aRock-15.

Oh, and Harley-Davidson is patenting the sound made by their unique muzzle break.

DirtCrashr said...

Mad!!! What me AR?

Ed Foster said...

Nothing to add, except the WV is "exessode" and I couldn't resist. That would be what, the cliffhanger at the end of the season of Nip and Tuck?

Jason said...

There's also the new Ithaca IA-15. Thanks to ingenious use of an old Browning design, the magwell doubles as the ejection port!

wv: culti - how gun owners get when their favorite guns/ designers/ caliber is slighted...

Steve said...

The H&R-15 is of course single shot?

Matt G said...

I laughed aloud at this. :D

I then typed my own additions, but they fell short.

reflectoscope said...

The Snap-On ATGR-1520 Pro: It really doesn't do anything that any other AR doesn't, but for some reason it costs twice as much.

Also, it is not a chisel, punch nor prybar, but damned if it isn't handy in all three roles.

Jim

gullyborg said...

The Microsoft XP-15 is no longer supported. You need to get the new Microsoft VistAR. But it doesn't work well unless you spend extra money on higher-than-normal capacity mags of at least 6 GB.

Also, don't forget the single shot Ruger no. 15! It's great for the sportsman who prefers the AR design but appreciates the extra challege of a single well placed shot.

trainer said...

Microsoft VistAR has been superseded by the Microsoft AR-7. All parts on the VistAR are interchangeable with the AR-7.

However, absolutely no parts of the Microsoft XP-15 are interchangeable with either the VistAR or AR-7...including ammo or any device witch fits on the XP-15 rails.

Chris M said...

Steve said...
"The H&R-15 is of course single shot?"

I think this one is already being marketed as a "tactical" .410: check out the Sure Shot model 87 .410 Single Shot with 6-position AR buttstock and grip as well as the M4 forend. http://www.centerfiresystems.com/SGN-SS-410.aspx

ktzf said...

You mustn't also forget that the iR-15 has a single control feature. You fire the rifle, release the bolt, drop the mag, and safety it all with a single switch.

Hatless in Hattiesburg said...

followed the link from dustbury

http://www.dustbury.com/archives/9588

, where i followed up on the Apple iR15 idea:


Six months after the Apple “Nano”, Micro$oft releases the “uZee”. Some details:

- You have to remove and replace the 8-shot magazine at least five times before it empties.

- With every major version release, ammunition triples in caliber but is loaded with 15% less gunpowder.

- For each bullet, the uZee first points at an empty box called “My Targets”, then you have to cock it twice before aiming at your actual target.

- User manual includes twelve pages of “congratulation on your purchase”, a list of available targets and accessories, and safety disclaimers, but no mention of the trigger, safety, or how to load it.

- Unlike the Apple, the uZee can be fired from left-hand, right-hand, and center positions (using the “scroll-stock”).

- Two months after the uZee, the market is flooded with aKays from Asia.

:)

seeker_two said...

...and don't forget the Honda AR-15....it's a gas/electric hybrid...and it looks like an egg with an adjustable stock....

Starik said...

There's also Tula-made A(K)R-15, which looks suspiciously exactly like AK-74, but has a sign "Is AR-15. Is no joke." scratched on the stock.

RevGreg said...

Actually H&R produced some early contract M16A1s for the military. A dealer friend of mine has an NFA registered one for sale and it has all the "unfinished" characteristics one would expect from an H&R produced weapon. Not sure if they produced enough of them to account for ALL of the serious issues encountered in the Vietnam years but I'd lay money on them having more than their fair share of malfs!

lineman458 said...

I am sure by now most of you have seen the new PSE crossbow that mounts to an AR15 lower?????

It's $1300 before the lower is bought..