Wednesday, March 19, 2014

You got Crimea before Ukraine joined NATO, Pootie.

...but if we roll over on Tallinn, we might as well give 'em the keys to Brussels, too.

In related news, it's often been joked that Japan could go nuclear during her lunch hour. You might want to think about knocking off for some noodles right now, Hiro, if you know what I mean and I think that you do.
.

41 comments:

bluesun said...

I'm thinking that I'm with Dan Carlin on this one--give Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania a nuke to share...

TJIC said...

https://twitter.com/MorlockP/status/446376763698843648

Borepatch said...

How many divisions has M. Van Rompouy?

Marko Kloos said...

All three of the Baltic states are NATO members now. They have all the nukes they need. 'Course, if they end up needing them, we're looking at thermonuclear war with the Russians, and adios muchachos.

Sebastian said...

I think it's time to remind Tsar Vlad that it's still NATO policy to use tactical nuclear weapons to stop Russian armor if we can't stop them conventionally. But that might be kind of hard to do for President "A World Without Nuclear Weapons"

But atomic sword rattling aside, If I were the President, I'd get a few armored divisions over to Estonia pronto and park a carrier group in the Baltic.

And I sure hope the US Navy is still trailing Ivan's boomers, because if we stopped, I think it's time to start again.

Comrade Misfit said...

Nice snark, but Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union back then.

Poland, on the other hand....

Ed said...

Has Mexico expressed any concerns about Spanish speakers in the United States, especially in Florida, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California?

Has France expressed any concerns about French speakers in Canada?

Has the United Kingdom expressed any concerns about English speakers in the United States (at least since the War of 1812, anyways)?

Tam said...

Comrade Misfit,

"Nice snark, but Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union back then."

Minus 1000 points for not clicking the link to see what I was even talking about.

Tam said...

(Here's a hint: "Tallinn" is not in Ukraine.)

Sebastian said...

I never really had much faith in Barry, but I really didn't think 5 years into the Light Bringer's Administration we'd have the cold war back on. And we still need to get through three more years of this. God help us.

If Angela hasn't called up Krauss-Maffei and told them "I vill take zem as fast as you can build zem," she needs to. Europe is depending on her.

How bad is it when you trust the German Chancellor to sort things out with Ivan more than your own President because she's got a bigger set of balls than he does?

From the Belmont Club: "The enemies of America know they are faced with the ultimate incompetent: the sort who keeps doubling down on a losing hand because he’s too vain to admit error and unable to even see he’s losing."

Yeah, that just about describes it.

Anonymous said...

So the Russians (Soviets) murder and exile native populations in neighboring countries, replace them with Russians, outlaw or marginalize native language and culture for 70 years. When these beleaguered nations regain their sovereignty they, out of the goodness of their hearts, don't exile the Russian interlopers back to mother Russia, and neo-soviet Tsar Vlad uses their "plight" as an excuse to invade and re-subjugate his neighbors. sweet.

Anonymous said...

If I were the Japanese I'd sure wonder what an American promise is worth these days. War is God's way of teaching Americans about half-lives(citation needed).

Mike James

Sebastian said...

I doubt Putin intends to take the Baltic states, unless he's gone stark raving mad, which is a possibility. I don't put any bets on what he'll do with Ukraine proper.

What he's doing is shoving Obama around, and showing the world Urkel won't shove back. That puts Putin in a position to bully the Baltic states, and any other country in Russia's sphere of influence, because they don't have faith in American security guarantees to feel confident enough to push back. That also helps him control more of the pipelines into Western Europe, so he can keep them on a short leash as well.

Joseph said...

The bad news is that everybody knows an American government promise is worthless. The good news is that everybody knows a Russian government promise is also worthless.

Geodkyt said...

Exactly, Sebastian.

It isn't about Obama -- it's about Obama's impotence and how that makes America a very weak reed to lean on. . .

Windy Wilson said...

“’Language should not be used to segregate and isolate groups,’ the diplomat was reported as saying. Russia was ‘concerned by steps taken in this regard in Estonia as well as in Ukraine’, the Moscow envoy was said to have added.”
As Anonymous 5:29 implied, the Russian envoy and Russia were concerned because that is what the Soviet Union had done in the Baltics since 1945. I met a woman who, as a Russian speaking Latvian was on the receiving end of resentment and prejudice in the mid 90's, thanks to 45 years of resettlement and banishment to camps. It's hard to not sympathize with her, but it's also hard to forget that the resentments of the Latvians, the Lithuanians, and the Estonians towards the Soviets/Russians/Russian speakers did not form out of thin air like Zeus in a Greek mythological seduction story.

Micki Mahoney said...

@Ed Has the United Kingdom expressed any concerns about English speakers in the United States...?

Frequently! We're terribly concerned that you've elected an even mix of half-wits and sociopaths into government. Alas, we're in the same boat here, so I'm afraid you're on your own. We would have sent HMS Ark Royal steaming to your assistance, but we scrapped it. Because, honestly, who needs aircraft carriers in the year 2014?

Anonymous said...

Have you figured out where to build the fallout shelter yet?

I am hoping that the Obama brain trust do not bumble this idiocy into a nuclear exchange until after the ground thaws. Or never, if that is possible?

The Raving Prophet said...

You know, I'm beginning to really hope Lockheed gets their rears in gear with the F-35. We might be needing those a little earlier than we'd hoped.

Ken said...

How long until we have always been at war with Eurasia and Eastasia?

fast richard said...

What sort of president do we need to reestablish American credibility on the world stage? How far back in the other direction does the pendulum need to swing and what will it cost us in blood and treasure?

When aggressors are sure no one will try to stop them is precisely when they are likely to start doing things that must be stopped. I'm starting to have the kinds of worries about international stability that I haven't had in decades.

Anonymous said...

Over at PJMedia's Tattler, I got into it with someone who was whining about the linguistic oppression of the poor Russians in Estonia and wondering why the US was "arming up for war" instead of just "giving Russian speakers consideration". If I may quote my reply to the twit:

Define consideration. If you speak Russian, that does not prevent you from learning to speak Estonian also; especially if you choose to make your home there after Estonian independence. Especially since the Russians there are not new arrivals but were invaders and occupiers from 1939-1991 [52 years, interrupted by Nazi occupation].

I am of Chinese ancestry. If I should find myself living in Russia, would it be oppression if I was expected to conduct business with the government in Russian instead of Cantonese or Mandarin? Would it be infringement on Russia's sovereignty if all Russian citizens of distant Chinese ancestry were given Chinese citizenship and passports regardless of Russian law, the way Russia just did in Latvia? The Brooklyn neighborhood of Brighton Beach [Брайтон-Бич] has a high percentage of Russian immigrants who do not speak English. Is Russia claiming the right to invade and "protect" them because they have to file their income tax in English?

Estonia is an independent and sovereign nation, as are the other Baltic Republics. It is not oppression if they expect all their citizens, even those of Russian extraction, to follow the same law. And if the Russians are not Estonian citizens, then their treatment is totally at the discretion of the Estonian government. Up to and including expulsion for failing to obey the law.

As far as "arming up for war"; the current American government desires nothing more than to submit to ANY foreign power. However, it makes perfect sense now for any country bordering Russia to "arm up" with anything that they can [including WMD's] to create a countervalue deterrent against Russian aggression.


I second your noodle bowl comment and recommend similar action by any country that used to be able to depend on a US alliance.

Subotai Bahadur

Anonymous said...

I'm worried that 'Bama is going to get tired of looking emasculated and say, "give me the football."

Anonymous said...

Brilliant mate! Spot on.

Mike Brahier said...

My whole life, so forever, as far as I am concerned.

Drang said...

What worries me is that His Imperial Majesty is finally going to Do Something and it'll be the equivalent of the grade school kid who gets tired of being bullied, and kills everybody...

Matt said...

Because lord knows, we don't need an air superiority fighter, ballistic missile shield, or main battle tanks. Those are so 1980s...

KM said...

Wasn't it President Thiệu that said:
"It may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal.”
He just might have been on to something...

Ken said...

And can we get them to take Brussels instead of Tallinn?

Bram said...

1. Everyone (including Putin) is forgetting, the Russian Army sucks. Not as bad as the Ukrainian Army, but pretty much the same equipment and tactics that we've done the hot knife / butter act with in Iraq twice.

2. The B-2 was designed specifically to annihilate Russian armor in column (lined up to invade their neighbors).

Ted N said...

I've got complete faith in the fine, upstanding diplomats and politicians we've got on the world stage. I'm sure the coolest heads will prevail, and this will all blow over, soon to be nothing more than an interesting chapter in history.

Snerk.

Ian Argent said...

I will be darkly amused if it turns out that the Congressional pork-barrel stopped clock responsible for "buying tanks the Army doesn't want" turns out to have been right that hour and we do need those tanks after all. OTOH, that'll be the only humor to be found...

Firehand said...

Hey, Lightbringers' defense secretary announced a budget that would get rid of both tanks AND a lot of infantry, because "We don't need them, we need more drones and e-warfare stuff."

Yet Ukraine just announced there will be training maneuvers with Brit and US forces. For which some of those nasty tanks and smelly infantry will be needed(for this at least).

Big difference here from the past is something happened sooner rather than later to point out "We just might need that stuff after all."

Firehand said...

And yeah, my fear too: Obama and Kerry have been given swirlies and had their lunch money stolen, and the bully is openly mocking them; considering their egos, they're just liable to decide "I must defend my status and reputation, because that's what is really important!" and- considering the crew they're surrounded by- do something really stupid.

After all, it won't be THEIR precious ass on the line out somewhere, so what do they care about the lower classes who are out there?

Anonymous said...

Far too feasible a scenario, Drang.

Above, someone said "If I were the President, I'd get a few armored divisions over to Estonia pronto. . ." Which points out an issue: the United States does not have "a few armored divisions." There's the First Division, and the First Cav .. and that's it. That's all. The Army is gutted.
If you aren't up on your militia duties for wookie-suited reasons, here's another reason.
-Erik from Seattle

Drang said...

By the by, living as I do in an area which has a large Russian -- AND Ukrainian -- population ( not to mention Georgian, Chechen, etc.), this talk on the part of Russia about protecting the rights of it's ethnic meteorites wherever they may be is not new.

Matthew said...

If we want to play conventional hardball we better start the Reforger convoys sailing, cause right now we ain't got f-all for heavy armor in Europe.

http://www.stripes.com/news/american-tanks-return-to-europe-after-brief-leave-1.264910

29 Abrams, 33 Bradleys, total.

Sure, that's like an entire Army Group worth of T-72's (based on Iraq) but the gunners' trigger fingers will tire out at some point.

Scout26 said...

We actually have 5 Heavy Divisions.
1Cav, 1Armored, 1ID, 3ID, and 4ID. At last count each had 5 or 6 Armor battalions and Mech Infantry Battalions.

Granted there's on a Stryker Regiment (Brigade bascially) in Europe and a battalion's worth of Abrams in storage over there. But roll them into Poland as a show of force along with sending a Heavy Divison or four (one to each of the Baltic states and Poland).

However, President LightBringer and Sec of State Mr. Suger Momma would never do anything like that. These are the kids that get picked on at school and never fight back.

I presict more and more concessions on our part by Dear Leader and his Horse Faced Flunky.

Where's Joe Biden and his Foreign Policy gravitas when we need it?

JimB said...

Wait 'till Putin decides he wants Alaska back.. It used to be Russian territory too>>>>>

Matthew said...

Jim,

We bought Alaska fair and square and Seward kept the receipt. ;)

Anonymous said...

Bram: the Russians are not to be underestimated. Arab militaries are a special kind of incompetent, to the point where it hardly matters what equipment they have.

http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars

Arab armies were the woe of their Soviet trainers. They’d all nod their heads at the appropriate times, but not one in a hundred of the conscripts could even read and write. The instructors would write on the blackboard and talk about deception, the need for motorized reconnaissance, flanking an enemy position to hit it from two sides at once, the mobile defense, the ambush, the need to create fallback positions for the static defense, and the Arabs would all nod their heads enthusiastically.

Then the next war with the Israelis would come, and the Arabs would load up in their shiny new Russian tanks and trucks and APCs and drive right up to the Israeli lines, then start driving furiously back and forth, shooting their AKMs in the air and chanting “Allah akhbar” to show how fierce and angry they were, and those damned, evil-minded, cheating Israelis would shoot back. And they’d aim, which was worse, for a true soldier of Allah merely points the weapon in the general direction of the enemy and inshallah the bullets will hit a foe, or not, if he has been insufficiently pious. Worse, the Israelis would use artillery and close air support, which are not only cheating but bordering on witchcraft. Cowardly witchcraft!

So the Arab armies would get their asses kicked up into their pointy little heads again, and roll back toward their own lines with their wounded in tow, if they’d thought to pick them up, and their Soviet instructors would groan and cover their faces with their hands, and drink heavily.

Only, see--the Soviet instructors, and the Soviet military, understand things like deception, and motorized reconnaissance, and combined arms tactics. The Iraqis were (and remain) so lazy, so superstitious, so cowardly, and so inept that an understrength Boy Scout troop could probably have toppled and captured Saddam and not taken much longer than the Army did.

I submit to you that the Soviet threat during the Protracted Struggle was real, and serious. And I submit that the Russians don't have the money to throw around that the US military does, but they've still got a hundred and fifty thousand tanks in storage that the Soviet regime starved its children to manufacture, and I submit that they do train. They aren't Arabs. They won't be overawed by Western troops. They'll fight. They'll shoot back. They won't shatter and flee the first time they see one of their own tanks hit and burning. They aren't as well trained, as well equipped, or as well led as a Western army, but they're no illiterate goat-herders. They believe firmly that they're fighting to protect the rights of fellow ethnic Russians in the lands Stalin colonized. They'll be competent, motivated foes. It'll be bloody.