Tuesday, June 30, 2009

Gamerz v. Warriorz, Round MCMLXIX...

...or, as Uncle would say, "Can't we all just get a long gun?"

The discussion continues in comments here and at Caleb's. For whatever reason, it has reminded me of the following quote from Jim Cirillo's book, Guns, Bullets, And Gunfights: Lessons And Tales From A Modern-Day Gunfighter:
1. Are you a competitive shooter?
2. Have you competed in major matches and won awards?
3. Can you perform well under pressure or fear?
4. Are you a hunter? Have you shot big game?
5. Do you like outdoor physical sports?
6. Do you collect firearms? Do you reload ammo?
7. If you are over 28, are you married? Do you have children?
8. Do you like people? Do you attend civic affairs?

If you can answer “yes” to at least seven of these questions, you can make it. If you make all twelve, you will likely walk away from almost any armed confrontation.

Remember one important fact: even if you do fit the above profile in all aspects, you still must be able to train at least two hours per week, with someone else administering unknown judgment firearms courses under time limits and psychological pressure.

-Jim Cirillo; Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights, pp. 59-60.

22 comments:

Armed Texan said...

Uh, did you mean round MCMXCVI?

Tam said...

To be honest, I lost track... :o

DirtCrashr said...

I can't answer yes to most of those except the ageist one by default. I don't like people and certainly don't attend civic affairs. Who would?

tomcatshanger said...

1. No
2. No
3. I have in the past
4. No, no
5. No (I mountain bike, but I don't think it's a sport)
6. Yes, no for lack of materials
7. Yes, no
8. Yes, no (who/what now?)

It's a bit odd putting twelve questions behind eight numbers.

Don Gwinn said...

I can answer yes to everything but the major matches/awards, but I confess I find the questions odd. Am I married? Do I have children? Yes and yep, so what?

Oh, shit, I just admitted I didn't read Cirillo's book, didn't I? Now both tribes shall shun me. Shunning is imminent.

Tam said...

"Am I married? Do I have children? Yes and yep, so what?"

I think he's claiming that folks like you have something that makes them want to live to make it home.

And I won't shun you, Don; I'm not really in either camp, either. I'm just not serious enough. :D

Les Jones said...

Never mind the formal questions. I fail the criteria of training two hours per week. I'd say that's a disqualifier for most of us who don't make shooting part of our careers.

Robert Langham said...

I guess this means I'm bulletproof, or at least will be smiling when the bullets start flying.

Cirillo's book is a good read, by the way. He shot a lot of people and never took it personally.

James E. Griffin said...

"I think he's claiming that folks like you have something that makes them want to live to make it home."

Yes, Tam, you nailed that one, but there's more: It's all about plugging yourself into your environment. Col. Cooper, in "Principles of Personal Defense." pg. 23 quotes a common maxim: "A commander may be forgiven for being defeated, but never for being surprised." He then recommends, later that you try to surprise your cat - while it's NOT sleeping. It's hard to do, because your cat's not running around in "The White." He's not worrying about bills, how his hair looks, he's always checking out his environment.

OK folks, what's generally gonna kill people is something they didn't recognize as a threat until it makes it's move on them, and it's coming out of their environment which they never learned how to read.

Sun Tzu has the famous maxim: "Know the enemy, know yourself..."

So, the more you're plugged into your environment, the more you properly process the information it feeds you, the less likely you're gonna get surprised, because you notice the stuff that's not right all of a sudden.

The more you learn to handle yourself in an emergency, the less likely you'll freeze up in crisis. Finally, you should know your own limitations, and know when to get the flock out of Dodge.

Tam said...

"I fail the criteria of training two hours per week."

I get in about 1.5 to 2 hours at the range each week, and I try to make it relevant, with strong-hand, weak-hand, malf drills and suchlike, but I'm a mass of fail on the 12 questions. Good thing I'm not trying out for the NYPD Stakeout Squad! ;)

Ninth Stage said...

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes. Yes.
5. Yes.
6. Yes. Yes.
7. Yes. No.
8. Most. Occasionally.

Rick O'Shea said...

"Honey, what are you doing?"

"Shhh! I'm trying to surprise the cat..."
"...What? It's a training exercise!"

(wifely eyeroll)

keith said...

I first thought he was describing a specific set of traits that gunfight survivors tend to share, but after reading the comments here, I think maybe he was just describing his personal demographic.

Jim survived.
Jim has these traits.
Be like Jim.

Not sure I agree with my own line of thinking.

Keith

Tam said...

"I first thought he was describing a specific set of traits that gunfight survivors tend to share, but after reading the comments here, I think maybe he was just describing his personal demographic."

No, he was describing several common traits of guys he saw do well on the NYPD Stakeout Unit in the '60s and extrapolating from that.

Les Jones said...

"I get in about 1.5 to 2 hours at the range each week ... Good thing I'm not trying out for the NYPD Stakeout Squad!"

And if one's life is mostly dealing with hippies in Broad Ripple, why would one put in that much training time, short of paranoia or simply enjoying it, of course?

There's a level of preparation appropriate for someone whose duty puts them in harm's way, and there's a level appropriate for most of us mere mortals who don't live in that threat level.

To put a number on that, two hours of range time plus the ammo to fill it is one to two hundred dollars per week. That's a lot of money unless your department is paying for it.

Major Killjoy signing off...

keith said...

Les Jones said "two hours of range time plus the ammo to fill it is one to two hundred dollars per week"

Even with todays inflated component costs, I spend three to four hours and 360 rounds at the range each week and I doubt I'm close to fifty bucks. Reloading and using an outdoor range with cheap annual dues help.

Keith

Joel said...

Hm.

1. Currently? No.
2. No. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Seldom. No.
5. Define physical sports. Hiking? Yes.
6. Define collect. Own multiple guns? Yes. Yes.
7. No. Yes.
8. No. No.

Some of these questions are ambiguous, but if they mean anything I guess I'm gonna die.

Oh...wait...
he was describing several common traits of guys he saw do well on the NYPD Stakeout Unit in the '60s and extrapolating from that.

Well then, it's pretty irrelevant. Has the NYPD ever actually had a righteous shoot in, like, its entire history? [cough]Amadou Diallo![/cough]

Clint said...

Hello, It's Clint, from the other comments. This is a bit embarrassing but I have a reply that is too long for comments but is just right for email. Plus comment sections are not really forums. I didn't see an email address on your blog and being that you are better at this than I am I'll ask: How do you want this delivered? I'll be back online after midnight.

Tam said...

The right sidebar: "TamSlick AT aol DOT com".

B Smith said...

I've never gotten the 'married, so you must want to live' thing...what, because I'm a single guy I should want to throw my life away? My sense of self-preservation is pretty healthy, I'd say.
My friends say I'm amazingly collected under pressure (I'd add that afterward I tend to fly apart/ drink 'til the shaking stops). I've never shot in competition (unless you count my nephew and siblings in the backyard), but I'm guessing neither has the guy shooting his way out of the 7/11 he just robbed.
I figure it's like a court case: it's a shitty situation going in, and you know you're probably gonna get hosed to SOME degree one way or the other...but in the end, all sorts of things, including blind-ass luck (good or bad) can still skew the outcome all to hell. So, you avoid it if you possibly can, and if not, you cover your ass the best you can and try to get out in one piece.

Clint said...

And I looked TWICE. This does not help make a strong position.

Email sent

Clint said...

“the 'married, so you must want to live' thing...what, because I'm a single guy I should want to throw my life away? “

It's not that per se. It has more to do with having something to come home to. If all a guy has is The Job it tends to eat away at the insides over time. Having someone back home that cares about you goes a long way to helping with the stress of the job. It really isn't about wanting to live, it is about having a life - outside of work.